Property Tax Revolt?

[SethCohn]

I tried to get something started a couple years back that was trying to make it so there was a dollar-for-dollar tax credit against the state-wide property tax for ALL donations to any private, religious or homeschool in NH. This might work at a local level too......

So, you have a $4,000 property tax bill, but you spent (and got receipts for) $2,500 in expenses for your home-school kid, and donate $1,500 that year to a private school, your tax bill is $0.

That would deflate the "harming the children" myth.

JM

NH Supreme Court has ruled that tax credits to religious schools violate the Church State separation clause, according to someone I trust to know these things (She's an old hand at the State House).

[AlanM]

So why not tax credits for non-religious schools? Homeschoolers could use some assistance and freedom from paying into the compulsory system.

[JonM]

There's a better way to state this position; a talk was held in England last year about the subject called "Is education too important to leave to the State?"  Whether or not "the State" rather than "the Government" will resonate with the populace is a bit of a question.  We understand the State to mean all government, but others may not get that the federal government falls under that umbrella as well.  They may just take it to mean the New Hampshire state government.

"Education is too important to leave to the Government"
or
"Education is too important to leave to the State"

A transcript from a talk held on the subject in England:
http://www.thersa.org/acrobat/blackstone_010404.pdf

The best part of approaching the question of how education is delivered from this angle is that it's 100% true.  Education is far too important to let the government keep screwing it up.

[Michael Fisher]

After handing over her truncated check, Dillon will lead a protest outside city hall urging others to "recalculate" their taxes as well.? She says she has no idea whether her act of noncompliance will inspire anyone else to do the same but that her family will "do this alone if necessary."

HA!  This is illegal.  It's called criminal solicitation!

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXII/629/629-2.htm

TITLE LXII
CRIMINAL CODE
CHAPTER 629
INCHOATE CRIMES
Section 629:2
    629:2 Criminal Solicitation. ?
    I. A person is guilty of criminal solicitation if, with a purpose that another engage in conduct constituting a crime, he commands, solicits or requests such other person to engage in such conduct.
    II. It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor renounced his criminal purpose by persuading the other not to engage in the criminal conduct or by otherwise preventing commission of the crime under circumstances manifesting a purpose that it not occur.
    III. It is no defense to prosecution under this section that the person solicited would be immune from liability for engaging in the criminal conduct by virtue of irresponsibility, incapacity or exemption.
    IV. The penalty for criminal solicitation is the same as that authorized for the crime that was solicited, except that in the case of solicitation of murder the punishment shall be imprisonment for a term of not more than 30 years.
Source. 1971, 518:1, eff. Nov. 1, 1973. 1999, 158:2, eff. June 28, 1999.

Hmmm... if the punishment is the same, then what will they do?  Immediately take your home away?   

[Michael Fisher]

How about this?


--clipped--

Edit:  Removed press release rejected by Kat.   

[Dave Ridley]

I didn't realize that urging others to do the same is a crime; but I assume Kat can still lead a protest without violating the law that day.   Unless she wants to violate two laws!

[FTL_Ian]

Doesn't a law that prevents people from urging others to do something violate the 1st Amendment?

[Dave Ridley]

Msgs I got from Ed Naile with CNHT, after I told him about this and suggested Kat as a guest for his thursday show.   He gave permission to print them here. Kat can you be on Taxpayer Radio Thursday?    can you contact ed or jane?

---

Dave:

   She is welcome on our show anytime. All we need do is contact Jane for a
schedule.

   Yes she will lose her home and the town will take it gladly just like
they have in Weare and Wilton to some of our former CNHT members. Lots of
homes have been taken all over the state that belonged to people who we do
not know. If she thinks the publicity is worth it she will have to make he
mind up soon.

Ed


Bob:

   Your absolutely right about the Constitution. So good luck with the
courts. Maybe they will do a 180 and change their mind. In the mean time
they will lose their house and property and be saddled with criminal records
and debt that will compound every year. I hoped we could use them to win
battles that leave us out walking around but if they feel there is some way
to win by sitting in jail I hope they don't change their minds later.

   Remember how impassioned Steve Swan, Andy Templeman and Bernie Bastion
were? I would try to talk to them and they would recite all the laws to me
for hours and hours and I couldn't get a word in edge-wise. They may still
be out there doing their part for freedom but Andy and Bernie lost their
homes and businesses and Steve is serving 8 years in a federal lock-up.
Chuck McGee is in for 7 more months but he gets press almost every week.

   Andy, Steve, and Bernie get no press. There is no one championing their
causes. We don't see them anywhere and all the good work they put into
everything is lost from what I can see.

   But they were right. If that is enough for them go for it.

Ed


Dave:

   This same thing happened in Mass. several years ago in an upscale
neighborhood. The owners occupied the place with the help of other friends.
And they had a pretty compelling argument that they did not owe taxes on it.
I forget what it was right now I can try to find it on the web. The media
was there almost every day.

   What the press and town did was bring in the family who bought the house
at the tax sale and have that family hang around homeless to offset any
sympathy the public had for the previous owners.

   Remember Gandhi started with nothing and was willing to die. If you try
that route you will be put on intravenous.

   Just looking at the history of this scale of activism. I hate to lose
good people to the bureaucracy and their minions , who by the way, love our
side doing this. They play it as justification of their powers.

Ed



Dave:

   On losing the house: It will take about three years for the town to grab
it for back taxes. I suggest reading the state statutes about tax deeds just
to be up on them.

   If by some chance they can get a court to look into this for some
Constitutional grounds, and there are plenty, they may get a stay or
something, depends on the issues and judge. Each case is a little different
but here is what to expect. If they pay $3,000.00 per year and are three
years behind that is $9,000.00 and there will be I think 18% added on for
late fees, the town will sell the place and give you back what they are not
asking for in taxes.

   Back in 1996? we got legislation passed to prevent towns from keeping the
whole property for a pittance in back taxes. It was HB55 and HB56 at the
time I forget but I would call that a small victory that has stopped the
lust for certain properties by criminal officials in some towns being the
reason to "forget" to sent tax bills out for three years to the proper
place.

   CNHT just helped a guy get back a piece that was going this route in
Windsor.
  - Ed

[Lloyd Danforth]

Doesn't a law that prevents people from urging others to do something violate the 1st Amendment?

Pretty Much!

[Dave Ridley]

Sent this to Walter Williams:

It has been a source of some sorrow to me that you, the man who arguably gave birth to the Free State Project, or at least to the idea behind it...have paid it so little attention in your public commentary over the last three years. During that time a lot has happened, a compelling series of events which have received only a fraction of the attention they deserve.

Here is a news item from the Free State I hope *will* grab your attention and that you will consider it worth mentioning.  The lady who's doing this is one of the 108 Free Staters who have moved to New Hampshire; so am I.  We are causing quite a ruckus!  For more information on our libertarian mischief making in New Hampshire, inspired by you, visit NHfree.com

---

New Hampshire family refuses to pay school tax
(then i attached the news release)

[Dave Ridley]

My read on all this civil dis stuff so far...

Here are a couple things that seem to be happening with regard to the civil disobedience that's going on:

1)  We seem to get the most sympathy when protests are conducted over innocuous things like manicuring
2) After a person gets arrested, it seems they usually feel a need to stand down for  a while in terms of getting arrested again.  This happens whether or not they planned to get arrested again (fortunately no one ever promised they would get arrested twice).
3) We also seem to have the most effectiveness when a civil dis protest is discussed on the forums for a week or two before being decided upon
4) Those initially unsupportive of a protest within our movement usually change their mind to some extent as the thing becomes reality.  This happened to me big time...I was not sure manicuring was a good issue...and was wrong!
5) The initial reaction among average people on web forums at least is vicious attack, especially against the more serious protests.   Then the attackers get counterattacked by garden variety freedom lovers and a reasoned debate springs up.

Also Kat are you having any second thoughts based on the concerns Ed has raised above?   Will you be able to put tons of energy into this thing for years without us losing you on other activistm?    I suppose if you were not certain about all this you could back out or moderate your protest anytime before the 30th and not that many would notice.  I should have suggested this before this came up.  But if you are comfortable going forward after knowing all the risks of course I will support you as best I can and I hope others here will as well.

BTW on the "neutral" NH forums Kat appears to be getting better levels of approval than russell did for his protest
4 somewhat supportive (at least of the goal if not the exact method)
5 somewhat antagonistic (though some of those do say they want downsizing)

[Dave Ridley]

With regard to ed's concern above about Bernie and Andy not getting publicity, I suspect they didn't have the kind of infrastructure support that Kat has.

Also what is the history on controversial civil dis protests by small groups not supported by the majority?  Seems like the 60s radicals got a lot of what they wanted and are now in positions of power to some extent.   how about the greenpeacers and others? 

Historically to what extent do initially unpopular protests hurt or help the cause of the protestors?

We should think about these things I guess...

BTW I don't think I like the idea of a criminal solicitation protest since I am not sure criminal solicitation laws are necessarily anti-freedom?

[Dave Ridley]

Another note from Ed Naile regarding Kat's planend protest: 

Dave:

   Here are some of the protests that made news I can remember.


January 15, 1998, New Hampshire: Constitutionalist Edward James Loh is arrested for driving a truck without license plates, drivers license or registration. He is charged with operating without a valid license, having an unregistered vehicle and disobeying a police officer. Loh refuses to pay his $25 bail, which lands him in jail for months until his trial date is set. He could face up to a year in jail.

   I have no idea where he is.

There was a person that fought "Live Free or Die" on his NH license plate. He won in the US Supreme Court and was allowed to cover it with tape.

   All throughout the nineties in NH there was a small band of activists that pursued a crooked judge in Newport named Franklin. The state protected him and even sent him his retirement checks while he was hiding out in Vegas where he finally "committed suicide." This activity led to some of the same people investigating the State Supreme Court and finally getting a shot at them through the Thayer divorce which led to the impeachment of the Chief Justice Brock and several "retirements." But the cost was everything the self-made lawyer Theo Kamisinsky owned. I have no clue where he is. That band of activists, the late Dick Bosa et al, have disappeared from what I know. They seemed unable to continue effectively and it is a loss to the state. The voters in NH smelled something wrong with our courts and the justices are still a bit wary of getting the public mad again. (Claremont came along about that time) We should keep working that angle because it will take years and honest judges to erase what Brock and his cronies did. We have the time, they still have crooks.

   We had a guy who pursued the vanity plates that are prized by mucky-mucks in NH. He may have died as well. He had some interesting evidence of a certain Executive Councilor getting big bucks for grabbing one for certain people. I talked to him several times but have no idea where he is now. In fact, someone approached me several months ago looking for him.

   There have been a bunch of protesters and activists I have come in contact with over 17 years I have been at it. Many burn out and go into financial ruin which takes some time to come out of. Many get divorced and move. It is not a wholesome or rewarding challenge and I always urge people to NOT make themselves a target. Many for some reason keep all their paperwork so no one else can use it?????????????

   I have been threatened with lawsuits about a dozen times, arrest a dozen or so, contempt of court once, a couple of physical threats I always welcome with a laugh, and I have been stalked by hostile media. I have a stack of hate mail, some are poems. I have TWO "Certificates of Upgrade to Complete Asshole" I cherish.

   I have also learned how the left PLAYS people like me. I have gotten phone calls from liberals who only wanted to talk to me so they could make up whatever they wanted me to have said during the conversation. This is a standard in my town.

   I know how they slight you in front of others in a sophisticated way to let their friends know a conservative is among them. There is all kinds of stuff to learn.

   So I hate to see good activists leap into traps of costly career ending civil disobedience before they learn the ropes.

   Think about it Dave. I had people assemble at the LOB to protest me and Grover Norquist in front of the press. The statewide media did not cover it because they would only be selling CNHT's "importance." They are not stupid. But the crowd protesting are at their wits end with how to deal with our group. They had me responsible for all kinds of stuff I would have loved to have done. "Intimidating the legislature?" "Especially the Senate?"

   Grover is national/international, millions of bucks, a whole floor office in DC, Harvard grad. meets with everyone who is anyone, and has been at it for years. We have a small office several grand in the bank, a solid mailing list, radio program, newspaper, we answer to no one, and that is it. We have never been arrested or hardly scratched by our opponents but we drive them nuts and laugh doing it.

   I hope the new residents work with us for a short time before going out on a limb with some types of activism.

Ed

[Michael Fisher]

Where is Kat?  She needs to approve this press release before I send it out!  ???

I like what Ed Naile has to say.  He is very smart.  He's been teaching me about how to use the 91-A Right to Know law.  It is a very powerful method of possibly uncovering corruption in elected officials.  This law alone can make bureaucrats' lives miserable.

Anyone who is politically inclined should probably follow his advice.

Unfortunately, my principles do not allow for exploitation of the law or making someone's life miserable.

[FTL_Ian]

I agree with Ed's cautious stance.  It's important to know thy enemy.

I think our infrastructure, thanks to the internet, is stronger than it was when those protests that he mentioned occured.

We know our enemy.  They are those who masquerade as though they are our "servants" but actually wish to control us.  They are a big gang.  A group of common thugs.  Some of them believe they are doing the right thing.  Some are just controlling sickos.

These people need to be fought now.  Our momentum is growing.  If Kat and Russell have the cojones to see this through, hopefully there are several activists in NH that will stand by them.  At appearances, court hearings, protests, etc.  I know that Free Talk Live will cover every moment of it!

Ed urges restraint and caution.  Caution is warranted, as well as some paranoia.  However, there is no better time than NOW to fight tyranny.  We are the New American Revolution.  The longer we wait, the greater the oppression.

Go Kat and Russell! 

You are true heroes of Liberty.
Ian