If Ed Brown dies then so do I.

[lildog]

Seriously, I can't apply for SS because I did not ever PAY IN. It's that simple.

Tell that to all the illegals that fully expect to collect the handouts while never paying in and the politicians that gladly look for ways to fork over our money to the people who never paid in.

[Braddogg]

Seriously, I can't apply for SS because I did not ever PAY IN. It's that simple.

Tell that to all the illegals that fully expect to collect the handouts while never paying in and the politicians that gladly look for ways to fork over our money to the people who never paid in.

I heard that illegal immigrants are the ones keeping social security solvent -- the ones who work with fake documentation contribute their 7.5% (and their employer another 7.5%) and will never be able to take out of that system.

[Dreepa]

SS was supposed to be for retirement. 7.5% each in and then take it out when you retire.
Then it got perverted and was 'good for all sorts of things'..

[error]

Now, if you go and put 7.5% of your income into some investments, you'll probably have a nice fat retirement account by the time you're of retirement age.

If you go and allow 7.5% (it's 13%, but who's counting) of your income to be taken by the government, you'll probably not get back enough to live on by the time you're of retirement age.

[CNHT]

Seriously, I can't apply for SS because I did not ever PAY IN. It's that simple.

Tell that to all the illegals that fully expect to collect the handouts while never paying in and the politicians that gladly look for ways to fork over our money to the people who never paid in.

I heard that illegal immigrants are the ones keeping social security solvent -- the ones who work with fake documentation contribute their 7.5% (and their employer another 7.5%) and will never be able to take out of that system.

Actually they are better off. If they participate in SS they may never get their money back. However, the reality is they make up for it in taking other services like emergency room care and schools.

[Quantrill]

Actually they are better off. If they participate in SS they may never get their money back. However, the reality is they make up for it in taking other services like emergency room care and schools.

Unfortunately, this is very true.  I really don't care who is in this country, but when people come here who aren't U.S. citizens and get access to tax dollars, that really bothers me.  I realize we're all in NH to change things for the better, but I guess to me it's a matter of priorities.

Someone had said awhile back "why begrudge someone else their liberties?"  Because there are so many problems I am worried first about this state, second about this country and then our neighboring countries can come later (ALL POLITICS ARE LOCAL).  As long as we are being unfairly taxed (which has a different meaning to everyone) then we should not be spending money on non-U.S. citizens.  Nor would it be fair to say "ok, you can come here and pay no taxes".  Dammit, that's what I want for myself, and I was born here!  Seniority, folks...

What if the FSP is very close to succeeding but Quebec says "we don't like what NH is doing.  Let's send 20,000 Socialists down there to change things for the 'better'?"  How ironic would it be to come close to a Free State, then have the whole shebang fail because non-U.S. citizens came here to change things?  And it seems like a sizable chunk of FSP membership would be ok with that happening.

[Brock]

Any source that says this demographic of people takes more than they contribute?  Any source other than the CIS study that underestimated contributions by over 45%?

[CNHT]

Any source that says this demographic of people takes more than they contribute?  Any source other than the CIS study that underestimated contributions by over 45%?

The closing of 141 tells the story quite well. I probably could find it again if I looked hard enough. The number given was $20K per person, per year in benefits...related to health, food stamps and schooling. The contributions don't make up for it but were factored in. It makes sense if you think about the fact that chances are good the jobs they have at first are not ones that include health benefits...and some are seasonal.

[Henry]

Actually they are better off. If they participate in SS they may never get their money back. However, the reality is they make up for it in taking other services like emergency room care and schools.

What if the FSP is very close to succeeding but Quebec says "we don't like what NH is doing.  Let's send 20,000 Socialists down there to change things for the 'better'?"  How ironic would it be to come close to a Free State, then have the whole shebang fail because non-U.S. citizens came here to change things?  And it seems like a sizable chunk of FSP membership would be ok with that happening.

I've found this too with members and also many libertarians in general. I think many just don't realize that the big money, mainstream media, Cheney and all the rest are trying as hard as they can to keep the borders as wide open as possible. Even the military is actively lobbying congress to pass amnesty, including tax amnesty, for the illegal immigrants. I don't understand why so many libertarian types like myself are fully on board with the Bush, the neocons, the state, and the banks on this matter. Their motives are not good, and it's NOT in order to promote an open and free society.

This issue personally affects me to a considerable degree, and while I'd like for my loved ones to be "legal" all of a sudden I'm not interested in removing everyone's freedom by fully diluting what Bill of Rights culture still remains here. Naturalization has value, and that process should be improved, but the public conversation is so one-dimensional that it won't happen.

[Braddogg]

Seriously, I can't apply for SS because I did not ever PAY IN. It's that simple.

Tell that to all the illegals that fully expect to collect the handouts while never paying in and the politicians that gladly look for ways to fork over our money to the people who never paid in.

I heard that illegal immigrants are the ones keeping social security solvent -- the ones who work with fake documentation contribute their 7.5% (and their employer another 7.5%) and will never be able to take out of that system.

Actually they are better off. If they participate in SS they may never get their money back. However, the reality is they make up for it in taking other services like emergency room care and schools.

If they pay rent, they pay property tax, which, in NH, covers schools . . . .  Now, it's true that it's not the total cost of sending a kid to school, which is shared by all the taxpayers regardless of whether or not they have kids in the school system, but that's an argument against the current system of socialized schooling, not against illegal immigration, because anyone who has kids in public school falls into the same category.  As for the emergency room care, you're right, hospitals shouldn't be forced to treat those unable to pay.  A hospital should feel free to laugh -- and laugh heartily -- in the face of anyone without insurance or a big savings account (I'm not being sarcastic, just humorously exaggerated).  That law should be changed (for everyone).

[error]

The really sad thing about it is that it's frequently cheaper for hospitals to treat illegal immigrants who are unable to pay for free than to get reimbursed by the federal government for it. Yes, the government program is THAT BAD.

[Braddogg]

The really sad thing about it is that it's frequently cheaper for hospitals to treat illegal immigrants who are unable to pay for free than to get reimbursed by the federal government for it. Yes, the government program is THAT BAD.

Hah!  I'm shocked -- SHOCKED -- that the government would put out an unfunded mandate

[error]

Oh, the mandate's funded, sort of. It's primarily that the cost of doing the paperwork frequently exceeds the amount of money the hospital would get back.

[Brock]

Any source that says this demographic of people takes more than they contribute?  Any source other than the CIS study that underestimated contributions by over 45%?

The closing of 141 tells the story quite well. I probably could find it again if I looked hard enough. The number given was $20K per person, per year in benefits...related to health, food stamps and schooling. The contributions don't make up for it but were factored in. It makes sense if you think about the fact that chances are good the jobs they have at first are not ones that include health benefits...and some are seasonal.

Would you, please?  All references I can find to 141 dealing with immigration are page numbers.

[CNHT]

Dallas hospital cares for illegal immigrants
But it's U.S. taxpayers who are footing the multi-million-dollar bill
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14172601/

Hospitals Feeling Strain From Illegal Immigrants
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/10/heallth.illegal.ap/

Hospitals Feeling Strain From Illegal Immigrants
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=950DE6DB133CF936A1575BC0A9649C8B63

Mexico Promotes Free U.S. Healthcare For Illegal Immigrants
http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/illegal_immigration/


May 31, 2007

Mexico Promotes Free U.S. Healthcare For Illegal Immigrants

Mexico's government operates programs in about a dozen American cities that refers its nationals--living in the U.S. illegally--to publicly funded health centers where they can get free medical care without being turned over to immigration authorities.

The program is called Ventanillas de Salud (Health Windows) in Spanish and its mission is to help illegal immigrants find U.S. hospitals, clinics and other government programs where they can get free services without being deported for violating federal immigration laws.

Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, San Diego and Indiana are among the cities where Mexican consulates operate the health referral system which annually costs U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars. In Los Angeles County alone, illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $440 million in health services annually and a whopping $1.1 billion statewide.

The Mexican consul in Los Angeles proudly announced that nearly 300,000 Mexicans in the area have benefited from his government's health referral program, which he says actually saves the county money by encouraging immigrants to seek preventive care rather than waiting for more expensive emergency treatment.

The Southern California operation promises to assess "consulate clients" for eligibility to government-funded health insurance and other primary care services and offers free legal assistance to those who are denied coverage. Its goal is to improve access to health services for immigrants of Mexican origin by formalizing a health education, medical home referral and insurance enrollment program.

In Chicago, the Mexican consul's Spanish-language web site heavily promotes the Illinois Department of Health's low-cost prescription medicine program for illegal aliens and various free medical services throughout the state. It encourages all Mexicans in the area to pursue the valuable U.S. government-financed services for their entire family.

The Indiana-based program boasts that it serves thousands of "Mexican nationals" living in that state as well as Ohio, Kentucky and southern Illinois. Mexican officials claim that its highly successful pro-health program sends out a clear message to other Mexican consulates throughout the country and the world.

Although these programs facilitate people to remain in the country illegally, Mexico is working hard to expand them to all 47 U.S. consulates to better serve its nationals. In the meantime, U.S. taxpayers will keep picking up the exorbitant tab of medically treating the millions who live in the country illegally.


The Effect of Illegal Immigration on the US Healthcare System
http://www.jhu.edu/hurj/issue7/focus-draoua.html

Hospitals on the Brink
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/06/border_hospitals.html

I cannot find the specific article that stated 141 hospitals along the border have closed for bankruptcy I have found individual counts for each border state which would add up, such as 38 in Arizona and 60 in California alone.

Just do a Google search -- I gotta run! But you will see that we don't turn anyone away, and it's being advertised in Mexico that we give this free health care. If the ones who are coming here now on their own are breaking the backs of the hospitals what will happen when we holler "allie allie ossenfree"?

A closed hospital helps no one!
And this just shores up the argument for socialized medicine.