Illegal Immigration

[Russell Kanning]

Remember a wise man once said a nation without borders is no longer a nation but an empire.

so an empire is bad, but a nation is good?
how big does a nation have to get before it crosses over?

[Russell Kanning]

My point exactly, with unrestrained immigration your bringing those problems here.

so how much should you restrain other people?
is that how you would like to be treated?

[Russell Kanning]

Second, immigration policy are not just stupid laws that somebody created, go try to immigrate to china, mexico, or india and the first question they ask is do you have chinese, mexican or indian heritage?

so we should follow the lead of the chinese, mexican and indian governments?

[Russell Kanning]

The libertarian profreedom position would be to be against illegal immigration for exactly that reason. They take 8 times more than they put in. The schoolbook libertarian version of open borders plus no welfare state combination wouldn't deter illegals from leaving as they are already here in the 10's of millions. It would only incite them to a full blown ethnic war against americans. Face it, deporting illegals and sealing the southern border and THEN dismantling the welfare state is the right solution.

I don't know what schoolbook libertarian stuff is. I just know that people should be free to pursue happiness.

[Russell Kanning]

If immigration was legal, the immigrants would be able to compete on the open market, which would make them subject to minimum wage laws, social security, income tax withholding, healthcare plans, etc., etc.  All of that would serve to ameliorate the underclass problem.

All of which would just promote more socialism. When my ancestors came SS did not exist.

Jane, I'm a little sick of you saying I want to promote socialism.

sure sounds socialistic and bad to me

[umbcpaleoconservative]

My point is demography is destiny and maintaining cultural integrity of a nation is the only thing that keeps it together, was Rome still Roman when it fell in 475AD? I'm not against all immigration from third world countries such as educated skilled technicians, doctors, etc. But the nations south of the border send their lowest of their low of unskilled cheap labour to sneak into the country illegally, further creating a pauper state and in essence an invasion "reconquista" of parts of America.

Remember a wise man once said a nation without borders is no longer a nation but an empire.

so an empire is bad, but a nation is good?
how big does a nation have to get before it crosses over?

[FTL_Ian]

The libertarian profreedom position would be to be against illegal immigration for exactly that reason. They take 8 times more than they put in. The schoolbook libertarian version of open borders plus no welfare state combination wouldnt deter illegals from leaving as they are already here in the 10's of millions. It would only incite them to a full blown ethnic war against americans. Face it, deporting illegals and sealing the southern border and THEN dismantling the welfare state is the right solution.

You have a severe misunderstanding of libertarianism.  People who support liberty do not support the initiation of force.  In order to "deport" and "seal", one must initiate force.

In addition, it is naïve fantasy to believe that government can successfully deport immigrants or seal the southern border.  Like any government program, all you'll get is huge amounts of human tragedy, ever expanding bureaucracies, and ever increasing taxation.

Please stop advocating force against nonviolent human beings.

[umbcpaleoconservative]

You have a severe misunderstanding of reality and outcome, theres an invasion going and you'd rather ignore that in the name of social egalitiarianism. What makes you so certain that a border is just a line in the sand? Why would people who just come here to make money and send it home want to fall in line with your libertarian values? Ignorance is bliss, eh? Look at history instead of some ayn rand pipedream.

The libertarian profreedom position would be to be against illegal immigration for exactly that reason. They take 8 times more than they put in. The schoolbook libertarian version of open borders plus no welfare state combination wouldnt deter illegals from leaving as they are already here in the 10's of millions. It would only incite them to a full blown ethnic war against americans. Face it, deporting illegals and sealing the southern border and THEN dismantling the welfare state is the right solution.

You have a severe misunderstanding of libertarianism.  People who support liberty do not support the initiation of force.  In order to "deport" and "seal", one must initiate force.

In addition, it is naïve fantasy to believe that government can successfully deport immigrants or seal the southern border.  Like any government program, all you'll get is huge amounts of human tragedy, ever expanding bureaucracies, and ever increasing taxation.

Please stop advocating force against nonviolent human beings.

[Braddogg]

You have a severe misunderstanding of reality and outcome, theres an invasion going and you'd rather ignore that in the name of social egalitiarianism. What makes you so certain that a border is just a line in the sand? Why would people who just come here to make money and send it home want to fall in line with your libertarian values? Ignorance is bliss, eh? Look at history instead of some ayn rand pipedream.

Why is it any of your business what people do with the money they earn?

[umbcpaleoconservative]

Because they are invading our country and want to make it into their own?

You have a severe misunderstanding of reality and outcome, theres an invasion going and you'd rather ignore that in the name of social egalitiarianism. What makes you so certain that a border is just a line in the sand? Why would people who just come here to make money and send it home want to fall in line with your libertarian values? Ignorance is bliss, eh? Look at history instead of some ayn rand pipedream.

Why is it any of your business what people do with the money they earn?

[CNHT]

I have no problem with them being rich or poor, doctors or gardeners so long as they want to emgirate in a civil way.

I have a problem with HATE GROUPS coming in and saying they are going to kill all the white people and take their property because it already belonged to them anyway (in their minds).

Is that how you would treat people in another country, say if you wanted to go to Japan? I don't think that kind of behavior would be tolerated.

[CNHT]

Please stop advocating force against nonviolent human beings.

You mean the same kind of force people use against us when they don't vote? 

[Braddogg]

Because they are invading our country and want to make it into their own?

Why is it any of your business what people do with the money they earn?

Oh, right, right, I forgot   The invasion   I can just see it now -- Latinos hiding little white children in their attics   Best seller in 2045: The Diary of Sally Hanson, the writings of a white girl hiding from La Raza patrols so the evil low-wage Mexican gang doesn't send her to a Taco Bell and make her live in the bathrooms -- talk about a gassing!   

[Henry]

Locking the front door and the car door isn't inflicting force on others. Don't Libertarians do that? Knock first and we can have a conversation before I let you in, maybe sign a lease at first, something. I guess from reading these threads I'm not any sort of pure Libertarian, maybe a Constitutionalist or something I don't know. What I don't get is where open borders are concerned some here are entirely fine with Bush  and co.'s agenda to take down the US from within. It's not any secret that the state is using the open borders to take away your rights. Just look at the immigration bill now being forced through and how it required biometrics for everyone, not just illegals. The worker authorizations? It's all the REAL ID but from a different direction. Do you all like that? What's wrong with having a nice, free place in this world? Just like a cell needs a membrane in order to survive, a prerequisite for a free society is a border of some sort. What's more important, being Libertarian, or being free?

[umbcpaleoconservative]

Good fences make good neighbors! 

Because they are invading our country and want to make it into their own?

Why is it any of your business what people do with the money they earn?

Oh, right, right, I forgot   The invasion   I can just see it now -- Latinos hiding little white children in their attics   Best seller in 2045: The Diary of Sally Hanson, the writings of a white girl hiding from La Raza patrols so the evil low-wage Mexican gang doesn't send her to a Taco Bell and make her live in the bathrooms -- talk about a gassing!