Civil Disobedience

[Michael Fisher]

Holy cow!  Why didn't I think of this before?

I wonder if our friend being prosecuted in Hampton would be interested in a civil disobedience event where we do something to improve her house in violation of town zoning laws in full view of the public.

If we warn the Hampton ZBA in advance and invite them to the event, it could work.  If you continue to do various improvements even after being warned to stop, you could be arrested.

Can you imagine how much press that would receive if it worked out?   

It may be difficult to pull off though if the town tries to ignore it.

[Kat Kanning]

The Burbanks?  Wouldn't it be the ladies who got punished rather than us?

[AlanM]

The Burbanks?? Wouldn't it be the ladies who got punished rather than us?

Yes. The homeowner is liable.
The only way WE can get arrested is to do something that requires a license, like plumbing, without a license.

[Michael Fisher]

Yes, they would need to be the ones to organize and head up the event.? We could only provide advice and assistance.

If they're fined $185,000 and have no options left, they could choose to do this.


OR we could simply adopt this idea for a future anti-zoning civil disobedience at an Undergrounder's house in a highly-zoned area.  If the action is harmless enough and the town reacts as it is supposed to, the outcome could be amazing.

[Michael Fisher]

For example, someone could paint their garage orange around halloween and paint it back in a few weeks.? ?

Not all of my ideas are good ideas!? But so what?? At least it's not boring on the NH Underground.?

[Kat Kanning]

If they're fined $185,000 and have no options left, they could choose to do this.

I like this!

[Lloyd Danforth]

move all of the plumbing outside of the house.

[Russell Kanning]

Maybe we should build a house for Lloyd in NH that is wonderful and spectacular in every way.......but violates every possible code.

[John]

Maybe we should build a house for Lloyd in NH that is wonderful and spectacular in every way.......but violates every possible code.

[Pat K]

Maybe we should build a house for Lloyd in NH that is wonderful and spectacular in every way.......but violates every possible code.

Aye call it the cranky mans non-code cottage.

[Michael Fisher]

My recent message to Bob Parsons, Founder of GoDaddy.com:


Mr. Parsons,

This is regarding the US government's recent ban on privacy for all .US domain names. I understand that you believe liberty should prevail in this matter.

Have you considered the concept of civil disobedience to defeat the government on this issue?

What do you think would happen if GoDaddy publicly announced that, on a specific future date, ALL .US domain name privacy that was originally removed will be reinstated, in clear violation of the new law? Even if they tried to stop you, they couldn't, because laws cannot stop outlaws. The publicity would be unprecedented.

Watch the movie Gandhi and you will see exactly what will happen. The government will enforce the law against you and it will make a fool out of itself in the process.

When the law is wrong, public nonviolent noncooperation is an option to show the brutality of the system.

Please visit our website for more information on civil disobedience.

Thank you very much for your time!
#3 Mike (NHFree.com) on May 27 2005, 09:45 Reply



Dear Mike,

If we did that, we'd be de-credited in a finger snap, and then our .US customers would be dealing with another registrar. Consequences are just too big, and we'd accomplish nothing.

Nice idea though.

Appreciate your post,

Bob
#3.1 bob parsons on May 27 2005, 14:20 Reply



They WOULD probably accomplish quite a bit by defying the law, but I don't expect the idea of nonviolent noncooperation to catch on quickly.

Besides, this is coming from the same Bob Parsons who thinks the government should control the placement of pornographic websites on the internet.   

[Dave Ridley]

My read on all this civil dis stuff so far...

Here are a couple things that seem to be happening with regard to the civil disobedience that's going on:

1)  We seem to get the most sympathy when protests are conducted over innocuous things like manicuring
2) After a person gets arrested, it seems they usually feel a need to stand down for  a while in terms of getting arrested again.  This happens whether or not they planned to get arrested again (fortunately no one ever promised they would get arrested twice).
3) We also seem to have the most effectiveness when a civil dis protest is discussed on the forums for a week or two before being decided upon
4) Those initially unsupportive of a protest within our movement usually change their mind to some extent as the thing becomes reality.  This happened to me big time...I was not sure manicuring was a good issue...and was wrong!
5) The initial reaction among average people on web forums at least is vicious attack, especially against the more serious protests.   Then the attackers get counterattacked by garden variety freedom lovers and a reasoned debate springs up.

BTW on the "neutral" NH forums Kat appears to be getting better levels of approval than russell did before his protest
4 somewhat supportive (at least of the goal if not the exact method)
5 somewhat antagonistic (though some of those do say they want downsizing)

[Dave Ridley]

What is the history on controversial civil dis protests by small groups not supported by the majority?  Seems like the 60s radicals got a lot of what they wanted and are now in positions of power to some extent.   how about the greenpeacers? 

Historically to what extent do potentially unpopular protests hurt or help the cause of the protestors?

We should think about these things I guess...

BTW I don't think I like the idea of a criminal solicitation protest since I am not sure criminal solicitation laws are necessarily anti-freedom?

[FTL_Ian]

BTW I don't think I like the idea of a criminal solicitation protest since I am not sure criminal solicitation laws are necessarily anti-freedom?

Umm, Dada?  1st Amendment?

"Go smoke a joint!" - I'm breaking the law!

Laws restricing freedom of speech sure seem anti-freedom to me!

[ravelkinbow]

My read on all this civil dis stuff so far...

Here are a couple things that seem to be happening with regard to the civil disobedience that's going on:

1) We seem to get the most sympathy when protests are conducted over innocuous things like manicuring
2) After a person gets arrested, it seems they usually feel a need to stand down for a while in terms of getting arrested again. This happens whether or not they planned to get arrested again (fortunately no one ever promised they would get arrested twice).
3) We also seem to have the most effectiveness when a civil dis protest is discussed on the forums for a week or two before being decided upon
4) Those initially unsupportive of a protest within our movement usually change their mind to some extent as the thing becomes reality. This happened to me big time...I was not sure manicuring was a good issue...and was wrong!
5) The initial reaction among average people on web forums at least is vicious attack, especially against the more serious protests. Then the attackers get counterattacked by garden variety freedom lovers and a reasoned debate springs up.

BTW on the "neutral" NH forums Kat appears to be getting better levels of approval than russell did before his protest
4 somewhat supportive (at least of the goal if not the exact method)
5 somewhat antagonistic (though some of those do say they want downsizing)

This is why I was thinking that when something like this is planned it is followed though with protested with signs outside of what ever jail the person is being held add the whole time they are held and continued in front of the court house until released.? It would garner more support and sympathy from all sides.? Imagine if when Mike was arrested and Kat threatened for the nail filling people had been outside of the jail supporting him and potesting rediculous laws how much publicity it would have garnered and what the common public would have said about someone being held in jail for such a rediculous thing.? Billy and I will volunteer to coordinate refreshments and food and do the running to stores and the like to make sure everyone there has what they need to get though the event, of course we will need help    We would need to make sure everyone was well cared for and if they have children or pets that they are cared for as well. The smaller issues would be easy to start with in the public eye and may carry more weight in changing laws than the larger issues.? What Russell did was great and took alot of courage but it is going to take alot more than that for the sheep to wake up and realize that it is not about the "protecting us" but controlling us.? The larger issues are always going to be the hardest.  My fear is that by the time the public at large realizes what is going on it will be too late and we will be living in a replica of Nazi Germany.  I don't know how many times I have had this discussion especially with my own family members and they say "oh that will never happen" they just don't realize it already is.  Mike, Kat, and Russell have my deepest respect for trying to show people what we are comming too and where we already are.