Civil Disobedience

[Kat Kanning]

Gandhi said that for civil disobedience to work, the cause must be just.  No one's going to rally behind you for the right to burn $1 bills.  Few will rally for what they view as kids' right to drink.  Something like delivering mail is a much better idea.

[KBCraig]

Gandhi said that for civil disobedience to work, the cause must be just.

There you go, spoiling the fun!

'Sokay, I'm fairly certain you and Russell and Mary and me will get along grandly. 

Kevin

[Russell Kanning]

Is it really illegal to burn your own money?

Yes, and technically, it's the FED's money that you're holding.? By burning it, you're effectively setting $1 of the national debt on fire.? I don't think we're ready to take on the Secret Service quite yet!? ?

Why is the SS any different than say....the IRS?

[FTL_Ian]

Yes.  The Secret Service doesn't have to send you written threats that can be ignored.  They will come and get you.  They get involved with all money issues, even with kids counterfeiting, the SS gets involved.

[Michael Fisher]

Gandhi said that for civil disobedience to work, the cause must be just.? No one's going to rally behind you for the right to burn $1 bills.? Few will rally for what they view as kids' right to drink.? Something like delivering mail is a much better idea.

Okay.  I've spent time looking through the actual US Code, but cannot find the exact law prohibiting private mail carriers.

Can anyone verify that this is illegal by citing the exact law?  Does anyone know of any cases where private mail carriers have been shut down?

[Michael Fisher]

If the economy becomes very bad because of the effects of our fiat currency, then burning money would be an excellent way to protest against fiat currency laws and demand the absolute separation of currency and state.

[Michael Fisher]

Idea:

-Publicly set a time and place to burn Social Security cards.

Risk:? unknown

The back of my Social Security card states:? "This card is the property of the Social Security Administration..."

Burning these cards would be a symbolic disobedience against forced "retirement" laws, SSN-related privacy violations, and much more.? Unfortunately, I've never heard of anyone being arrested for destroying their SS card, and I'm not sure the government would respond to it.

[FTL_Ian]

If the economy becomes very bad because of the effects of our fiat currency, then burning money would be an excellent way to protest against fiat currency laws and demand the absolute separation of currency and state.

Yes it's a great protest, but only as a group of over 50 participants.

[Michael Fisher]

I have a better idea for the fiat currency protest!

Idea:

-Publicly set a time and place to sell something and REFUSE to take Federal Reserve Notes as payment.

Risk:? unknown

At the heart of fiat currency laws, the government mandates that Federal Reserve Notes must be accepted as payment for all debts, public and private.? Therefore, we are not fighting for the right to burn FRNs, we are fighting for the right to REJECT them as payment for our debts!

Perhaps we could sell something symbolic, like copies of the Declaration of Independence, Thoreau's Civil Disobedience, Gandhi's autobiography, etc.? We could have signs that say "Federal Reserve Notes NOT Accepted Here!"? Then we would only accept FOREIGN silver and gold bullion.

I've never heard of anyone being arrested for this, and I'm not sure where the exact law is, but I know it's illegal and may cause a government response.

[FTL_Ian]

I have a better idea for the fiat currency protest!

Idea:

-Publicly set a time and place to sell something and REFUSE to take Federal Reserve Notes as payment.

Definitely safer.  While I have heard that everyone must accept FRN's, I question it.  Some gas stations and fast food places will not take 50s or 100s.  If it's really true that all businesses must take "legal tender" wouldn't these places be in violation of that?

Federal Reserve Notes must be accepted as payment for all debts, public and private.

Is a "sale" a debt?  I certainly don't think so.  It's a transaction.  A trade of one thing of value for another.  Perhaps there really isn't a law mandating "legal tender" be accepted for sales.  I'm interested to find out.

[Michael Fisher]

Definitely safer.? While I have heard that everyone must accept FRN's, I question it.? Some gas stations and fast food places will not take 50s or 100s.? If it's really true that all businesses must take "legal tender" wouldn't these places be in violation of that?

Is a "sale" a debt?? I certainly don't think so.? It's a transaction.? A trade of one thing of value for another.? Perhaps there really isn't a law mandating "legal tender" be accepted for sales.? I'm interested to find out.

TITLE 31 > SUBTITLE IV > CHAPTER 51 > SUBCHAPTER I > ? 5103
? 5103. Legal tender
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

Acceptance of FRNs is clearly mandatory under this law.  This forcefully-mandated law is the ONLY reason the US dollar has any value at all.  It's the same with any fiat currency.

Gresham's Law:  Where fiat currency laws exist, bad money drives out good money.

I'm also positive that anything sold is a "debt" under the law, but that debt is simply paid off immediately in a retail sale.  Gas stations and others may reject large denominations of US dollars because they accept smaller bills instead.

[Michael Fisher]

I bet if everyone on this list read Civil Disobedience and watched the Gandhi movie....we would have a dozen more crazy activists like Mike Fisher and myself.

Agreed.

I have a few more days to decide what I am going to do otherwise I will never get started. We have to act .... not wait for our numbers to be high enough. We can always keep putting off action.

You're right.  Do you see anyone else doing this type of civil disobedience?  Most people think civil resistance is blocking traffic or chaining themselves to something.  As long as the plan is good and the cause is just, I'm there.

And the time is now.

[FTL_Ian]

We talked about you last night.  Last hour, last part of the hour:

http://freetalklive.com/files/FTL041205B.mp3

[elk]

I like the Postal Service idea; here's why.

In my neighborhood we had been leaving flyers in neighbors mailboxes telling of events and parties and distributing phone lists. We came to find out that when this was discoverd by the USPS mail carrier they were removed and discarded, and a note was left saying that it was illegal for anyone but the USPS to leave anything in the mailbox because it is FEDERAL PROPERTY! Did you get that? The mailboxes we buy and pay to install on our property  belong to the Feds! I haven't investigated this claim so I don't know if they are correct, but, it certainly ticks me off!

My $0.02

Ed

[Michael Fisher]

Here's some more info for the civil resistance against New Hampshire's licensing laws:

Chapter 313-A: Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/indexes/313-A.html

And the specific section:

Licensure Required
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXX/313-A/313-A-9.htm

313-A:9 Licensure Required. ? It shall be a misdemeanor for any person to:
I. Engage in any practice regulated by this chapter without the appropriate license.


In other words, shampooing somebody's hair without a license is equivalent to theft, assault, trespassing, or vandalism.  We will get public support for this one.