Illegal Immigrant charged with tresspassing in Jaffrey, NH

[Dreepa]

I have a question -

Were the opening lines in Scarface accurate?  Did Cuba really send criminals to south Florida, and we just let them in?  To me that's just stupid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift

[jaqeboy]

No one said this particular fellow was not 'working hard'. We were discussing driver's licenses and why we have them...to operate a car safely.

Actually, I think we were talking about freedom. You brought up that he might be blind or an unsafe driver - "how would we know if he doesn't have a drivers' license?" I could help clarify also how the DL has been used as another authoritarian tool, beginning in about the 20's (before that, none were required and a man's right to travel was universally recognized), but there are sites on that subject out there.

If someone doesn't want to use a DL that's fine, but picking on someone who does...

You won't find that in my posts.

And Jack -- you are one of the nicest people I've ever met in person

Thank you - I try to be.

... but how you can turn so nasty over discussing the consequences of these things in print is beyond my comprehension, especially dragging out the race card every chance you get. That's pretty much a conversation stopper, as I think it's intended to be. Never a fair fight..really.

It's unfortunate that my attempts to clarify the freedom issue are interpreted as nastiness, as they are not intended as such. Clarifying what is an effective strategy for freedom is crucially important, so people don't expend enormous amounts of scarce energy responding to their fears and asking for jackbooted thugs to save them from, what?, people who want to be free.

Naming conservatives who follow this line as enemies of freedom is just a definition and clarity exercise. It's important to know where one stands. I think conservatives are being "played" by the inherent "fear of others" and I state that clearly. We held a media mind control workshop at the AltExpo up at PorcFest that could help clarify how this is done for people who are not aware of it.

[jaqeboy]

... But how do we know this guy could SEE? If he did not have a driver's license, he could have been driving blind.

It won't affect you until he runs over and kills one of your own kids.

Questions: Is this alarmist fear-mongering? Does it have a place in a discussion about the rightness or wrongness of population migration and attendant issues? Is this more a technique to appeal to people's emotions (fear, in this case) and to make them forget facts and reason? When and how can we stop being ruled by our fears and build a happy and peaceful society through the use of our senses and reason?

These are the questions that interest me - but, that's just me...

[CNHT]

It's unfortunate that my attempts to clarify the freedom issue are interpreted as nastiness, as they are not intended as such.

The discussion is not the problem, but using words like 'Wetbacks' and 'Canucks' is. (See the discussion about the Canadian woman who was caught voting in the NH election -- twice)

i would never refer to Mexicans or Canadians in such a way but by your doing so, erroneously suggests to the reader that I would or did.

See what I am saying?

It's like what the media does -- guilt by association.

[AntonLee]

JAFFREY, N.H.—A small-town police chief used a criminal trespassing charge to try to turn back one illegal immigrant...

...Ramirez admitted he was living in the United States illegally, working for a construction company.

Sounds like a blind (that was rich  - that's about the furthest stretch I've ever seen on this issue), no-good layabout welfare-sucking criminal again, eh?

Actually, it appears to be another case of someone seeking freedom and opportunity to work and elevate his position in life - sort of an "American dream" kind of thing. Just the kind of thing libertarians applaud. The reason libertarians oppose jackbooted goons suppressing these freedom-loving ambitions is sorta obvious on the face of it, but it is sad that some fall for the "collective security" solutions that the establishment promotes as a solution to the fear of "the others" they try to instill in the populace. Conservatives seem to be falling for this one and encourage repression as the solution to their fears.

I think libertarians have intellectually grown through that game and see the truth that the agenda is to create enough fear to get people to go along with recruitment of ever more jackbooted goons, who will only be used to keep us all in place. On this issue, conservatives side with the repressive state and are the enemies of freedom. Libertarians are for, well, what they are always for: freedom (from the state).

PS: the obvious reason the guy does not have a DL is because he fears the repression of statist documentation and tracking and the harassment, imprisonment and impoverishment it would lead to. He sees that his only path to his freedom and pursuit of the American dream is to be "undocumented." Conservatives seem to be siding with the development of all-seeing 1984-like surveillance - isn't there a "Let's cheer on Big Brother" forum somewhere for them?

Fewer jack-booted goons, please!

I'll cheer on whatever I feel like.  You can still love liberty and not hate everything about the government.  You saying the guy doesn't have a driver's license because he 'fears the repression' is just about as good as me saying that he doesn't have a driver's license because he doesn't want to waste $25 bucks on trying to get one. 

I don't drink jack, what a horrible assumption to make.  Nor am I a goon, nor am I going to sit here and brush EVERY illegal as a bad person.   Perhaps you not brush them all with the liberty loving crap.  They're here to take and make money, if you think that this is the minority then I think we'll have to end our conversation (as long as conversation means I make points and you take potshots).   I've worked with them, I've learned some of their languages, I've seen how they take social security numbers to get what they want.  I've seen them take their money and send it home, and then return home to check how their estate is coming. 

The only right thing to do now is to end welfare.  No handouts for the poor huddled masses (like the MS13) and they'll have to go somewhere else for them.  I have to apologize to the MS 13, because in a soverign nation as most of you dream of being, one nation is free to rape another and nothing should be said about it.

[AntonLee]

Libertarians who badger someone because they have a drivers license are jack-booted thugs. (As well as immature time-wasters)
For people claiming to be freedom lovers they can be some of the most intolerant hypocritical bunch I've ever seen.
Once again reminds me of the 60s.

Verbal abuse is sometimes worse, you know?

No one said this particular fellow was not 'working hard'. We were discussing driver's licenses and why we have them...to operate a car safely.
I have refused to use mine for ID for other purposes as well as the fact I don't use my SS number either for any purpose.
If someone doesn't want to use a DL that's fine, but picking on someone who does is, well, it's just plain lowliness in my book.

And Jack -- you are one of the nicest people I've ever met in person but how you can turn so nasty over discussing the consequences of these things in print is beyond my comprehension, especially dragging out the race card every chance you get. That's pretty much a conversation stopper, as I think it's intended to be. Never a fair fight..really.

so well put.

[Braddogg]

I don't understand how a goddamned piece of plastic in my pocket helps me operate a car safely. This is done by training and experience. The piece of plastic is irrelevant.

I guess you've never tried driving without the plastic in your pocket, have you?  The plastic is ESSENTIAL for safety []

[error]

I've driven all over the country without any goddamned pieces of plastic. No accidents.

[Braddogg]

I've driven all over the country without any goddamned pieces of plastic. No accidents.

[jaqeboy]

JAFFREY, N.H. — ...Ramirez admitted he was living in the United States illegally, working for a construction company.

...it appears to be another case of someone seeking freedom and opportunity to work and elevate his position in life - sort of an "American dream" kind of thing. Just the kind of thing libertarians applaud...libertarians have intellectually grown through that game and see the truth that the agenda is to create enough fear to get people to go along with recruitment of ever more jackbooted goons ... conservatives side with the repressive state and are the [therefore] enemies of freedom...

PS: the obvious reason the guy does not have a DL is because he fears the repression of statist documentation and tracking and the harassment, imprisonment and impoverishment it would lead to. He sees that his only path to his freedom and pursuit of the American dream is to be "undocumented."...

...You saying the guy doesn't have a driver's license because he 'fears the repression'...

Stated above: "the obvious reason...", I mean why would you want to register with the freedom-repressing enemy you were trying to evade, eh?

I don't drink jack, what a horrible assumption to make.

I miss the reference here - is there something I said about drinking? (Maybe I was drinking!)

...   Perhaps you not brush them all with the liberty loving crap.

The sad thing about all this libertarian education we've done over the last 38 years is that in many cases it has not sunk in that one must honor the others' freedom to have any expectation of having your desire for freedom be respected. If it is only okay for me and not for thee, methinks it never will be! Was Ramirez above accused of a crime against people or property? I missed it, if so. It seems odd to me to refer to someone else's desire for freedom as "crap." Would you consider it proper for someone to refer to your desire for freedom as "crap?" A hallmark of libertarianism is consistency. Other philosophies don't require that, per se, since they are not based on principles.

They're here to take and make money...

Sounds familiar...

...I've seen how they take social security numbers to get what they want.

Again, sounds familiar - I see plenty of Anglos in my prison work that are in the clink for doing the same.

I've seen them take their money and send it home, and then return home to check how their estate is coming.

Is someone speaking out against the American dream of home ownership again? Me, not thee?

[jaqeboy]

... especially dragging out the race card every chance you get. That's pretty much a conversation stopper, as I think it's intended to be. Never a fair fight..really.

so well put.

Are we talking about Mexicans (and, perhaps other hispanic peoples) crossing over the U.S.'s southern border, or not?

[Lloyd Danforth]

I have a question -

Were the opening lines in Scarface accurate?  Did Cuba really send criminals to south Florida, and we just let them in?  To me that's just stupid.  Surely the founding fathers wouldn't be happy with that happening?

Sorry if my understanding of history is lacking on this point.

Sort of.

When Castro came to power, many of the Batistas came over as refugees. They were later joined by pro-Castro elements who were dismayed that Castro decided on the "socialist paradise" route instead of pursuing more "capitalist" options. Batista was incredibly corrupt, and even a large number of Batista's army joined Castro because he was the only other gig in town. No one really realized that he would go so strongly socialist.

Once esconced in Southern Florida, a portion of these Cuban refugees have sworn eternal hostility towards Castro's regime; some of them have engaged in actions so shocking that the FBI labeled them a terrorist group. That hasn't stopped the CIA from working with them, though, on covert operations within Cuba.

It's another case of state-sponsored terror, where the state sponsor is good ol' uncle sam.

The reference in Scarface is about the Mariel Prisoner situation of 1980 when Castro emptied some prisons and sent them here. It is not about Batista, The Cuban Revolution, or Miami Cubans determining US policy with Cuba..

[lildog]

The plastic is ESSENTIAL for afety []

I think you are confusing the plastic in your pocket with the rubber in the pocket.