another "which city" question

[mackler]

And if some of those activists would vote, they might have good reps, too! Imagine: all this and yours could be more....in Keene!

I voted once in Keene .... they didn't listen to us. I learned my lesson.

Maybe you didn't do it right.  You're supposed walk out of the voting booth holding up your ink-stained finger proclaiming "I'm free!"

[Rochelle]

like where you can walk in and by sliced meats and/or get a good sandwich

Hmmm, actually I'm not sure. I've just seen signs that say "deli," so I assume that it's deli. I haven't actually been in one

But hey...I have eaten the chinese food, the sushi and Indian food!

[alohamonkey]

Manchester or Nashua sounds like what you're looking for.  You should probably consider Keene, Concord, and Portsmouth too . . . i'm just not too familiar with them.  I live on Bridge St. in Manchester and within 0-1.5 miles, I have:

a good deli (Jerome's)
great breakfast food (Julien's, Bridge St. Cafe, Red Arrow Diner, the Derryfield)
normal grocery stores (Hannaford's, Stop 'N Shop)
sushi (Thousand Crane)
amazing Korean food (The Korean Place)
Nepalese food (Cafe Momo's)
several independent coffee shops
Dunkin D's (forget Starbucks - Dunkin' Donuts is what the East Coast seems to love)
decent pizza (Alley Cat)
some good and some sketchy Chinese joints
mediocre Mexican (Margarita's)
great Brazilian steakhouse (Gaucho's)
laundromat
lots of bars and other restaurants

within 1.5-3.0 miles:
awesome Mexican food (La Carreta's)
an organic-type grocery
an Asian grocery
really good Indian food
city pool (free for Manch residents)

That being said, Portsmouth might be a cool city to live in too.  Portsmouth and Nashua's rents are going to be more than Manch and, I'm assuming, Keene.  Depending on what your plans are, Portsmouth might be to your liking.  My girlfriend and I go there all the time . . . tons of restaurants, bars, shops, etc. 

[Dreepa]

awesome Mexican food (La Carreta's)

Went there for the first time last week.  Why didn't anyone tell me about this place?
I was totally wanting Mexican.  LA was good for something.

[Rochelle]

Anyone know of a good Vietnmese place in Manchester?

[mackler]

After much research (with more to come), I present the following report.

Preliminary Statement

Firstly, trying to decide what city to live in based on what it looks like from Google Earth is inherently limiting.  I admit that the best thing to do would be to live in various places in NH, and then to make a decision.  Furthermore, I am biased, both by preference and by necessity.  My preferences should be patent, and I am necessarily limited in considering national chains with which I am familiar, rather than local NH businesses even though the latter may be more to my liking.  That said, to the extent that one can do research by internet, here's what I found.  Take it or leave it as you please.

For this study, I considered (1) Manchester, because it's the biggest, (2) Keene, because it emanates the most powerful porcupine vibrations, (3) Porcsmouth, because it is the only city in NH that has a citysearch.com page, and (4) Concord, because it's the headquarters of you-know-who.  I did not consider Nashua, because I consider it to be for people in denial who would really rather be in Massachusetts.  Moving there would be half-assed.  I'm open to arguments favoring Nashua, since it is the second largest city in New Hampshire (and it has a headshop).

Findings

In General

The population in 2000 of the tri-county area of Rockingham, Merrimack, and Hillsborough was 794,425.  The tri-county area is 2,642 square miles.

In none of the cities I considered is there any of the following:

• Ikea (but there is a Jordan's in Nashua)
• Denny's
• Whole Foods Market

Manchester

Manchester is the largest city in the state, but it's still not that big by city standards.  The population is about 109,691.  In comparison, Hartford, CT is 124,397.  Santa Barbara, CA 92,325, Seattle 573,911, Eugene, OR 144,515, Boise, ID 193,161, Fort Collins, CO 128,026, Sarasota, FL 55,000.

One thing Manchester has going for it, is it centrally located between Concord, Porcsmouth, Keene, and Nashua.  There is an area called "downtown."

From Google Earth, it looks like the desirable area goes along Elm from maybe about Bridge Street on the north to Market/Hanover street on the South.  As far as chains go, there's a Subway on elm.  Inexplicably, there is no Starbucks in Manchester!!  WTF?  (As an aside, Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts have nothing in common, besides that they both serve drip coffee.  Anyway, we're boycotting Dunkin Donuts.)

Locally speaking, there's a coffee place called "Ahh-some coffee."  I have no idea if they suck or not.  The Red Arrow diner is apparently fantastic.  Bean-and Bagel apparently has bagels, and Yoga Balance is on Bridge street.  Manchester has a Gold's Gym.

For natural foods, there's a place called A Market.  This is not downtown, however.  It's on South Willow stcroot, in what looks like a stripmall, suggesting that there may be a choice between eating natural and burning fossil fuels.

Convenient to downtown is UNH Manchester.  Library membership is $60/year (if you're not already a student), which gets you access to other UNH libraries, plus discount access to local museums including the MFA in Boston.

Southern New Hampshire University is about three miles north of downtown Manchester, and is private.  The library is open to the public, but you have to be affiliated with the school to borrow.  The library is a government document depository.

Manchester is the only city in this survey with an international airport.

Keene

The city of Keene is famous, of course, not only because it is ground zero of the Porcupine Movement, but also for the [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpkin_Fest]Annual Pumpkin Festival[/url].  Porcupines seem to have a dominant media presence in Keene, including a newspaper, a radio program, and they seem to be infiltrating the local cable access.

In terms of amenities, Keene has a UPS Store, a Starbucks (not downtown), a Borders Books, a Friendly's, a Subway.  There's a place called Lindy's Diner.  Anyone have knowledge of Lindy's?

Although the population is small, about 20K, it looks like one could walk across town in less than ten minutes.

The =http://www.keene.edu/library/Mason Library at Keene State College honors Keene Public Library cards.

A downside is that Keene is kind of far away from the other target areas.  If you're a crow, it's about forty miles to Manchester.

Porcsmouth

The population of Porcsmouth is about 20K, roughly equal to that of Keene.  It's the only city on the New Hampshire seacoast.  It's about 30 miles from Manchester.

Notably for the carless, Porcsmouth has the COAST Bus Service, a private operation (presumably operating with a government license).  From downtown Porcsmouth, $1 will get one to a number of useful locations, including UNH, the Amtrak station in Dover, and the Pease Airport.  A route that doesn't quite go through downtown serves Exeter where there is also an Amtrak station.  During the summer there is also the "Trolley" line, which I do not believe involves any actual trolleys. 

The carless will also want to know that Porcsmouth has an Enterprise Rentacar.

Downtown, there is a Starbucks, a Subway.

Porcsmouth features a Gold's Gym somewhat on the outskirts of town.  Just to the north, in Newington, is an IHOP.

There's a place called Victoria's Juice.  I don't know what it is.  Maybe it's a juicebar.  Anybody have more info on this?

Also notable, Porcsmouth has a rich history since it was one of the first settlements and was home to a number of famous historical characters.

Concord

The main thing Concord has going for it (for porcupine purposes) is that it's the headquarters of The State.  It also seems to be the only place in New Hampshire with law libraries, the public one, and the the one at Franklin Pierce.  I don't know which one is better.  Access to the Franklin Pierce government documents is free to the public, and attorneys can join the library for $240/year, which includes (in-library) access to WestLaw.

Population-wise, at about 40K Concord is about twice as large as Keene or Porcsmouth.

In other areas of interest, Concord features a UPS Store, a Starbucks, a Subway, a Gold's Gym a Border's Books, a Waldenbooks, and a Kinko's.


Concluding Statement

Trying to pick one place to be is tough.  My tendency would be to just choose the city with the most people, or the city with the most porcupines.  That would be Manchester or Keene, but the fact that the law libraries are in Concord makes the choice not so easy.

After much pondering I am starting to think that perhaps it is not useful to ever think of the choice as "which city."  Perhaps it is more useful to consider the whole region , and to think of each city as a neighborhood.  Consider, for example that the distance from Manchester to Concord is about the distance from downtown Los Angeles to Venice Beach, which are both in the same city.  The distance from Sylmar to San Pedro, both in the city of Los Angeles, is greater than the distance from Manchester to Porcsmouth.

More thought as i think more.

[error]

Porcsmouth

Your Freudian slip is showing.

[JonM]

Whole Foods is coming to Nashua in 2008.  Ikea and Jordans are two different beasts.  Denny's?  Seriously? 

I live next to Nashua in Hudson.  I am 11.9 miles from my driveway to the terminal of Manchester International by taxicab via back roads.  As far as national chains, I don't mind buying boxes from them, but eating?  Come to NH and let us break you of your chains.

Hudson has some very good reps on the NHLA report card...and two exceptions.  Nothing even approaching the semblance of a downtown.

[Russell Kanning]

In none of the cities I considered is there any of the following:

• Ikea (but there is a Jordan's in Nashua)
• Denny's
• Whole Foods Market

For natural foods, there's a place called A Market.  This is not downtown, however.  It's on South Willow stcroot, in what looks like a stripmall, suggesting that there may be a choice between eating natural and burning fossil fuels.

The population of Porcsmouth is about 20K, roughly equal to that of Keene.

I would stop looking for west coast chain stores here and just assume you can buy stuff you like here in NH.
Portsmouth is much bigger than Keene I am sure.
For people from places like SoCal .... all of NH is one city. If you lived in Manchester, you would not miss out on a thing ... accept the back woods .. which you obviously do not want to live in.
If you want to eat natural foods and not burn fossil fuels ... do not live "downtown" in a big city. Live on a farm.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Lindy's in Keene is an interesting place.  The first day I ever spent in Keene, I bumped into it and had breakfast there.  I wasin Keene  because the American Candidate program was in town.  IIRC  9 candidates came thru town each with their entourage of camera, microphone and "please sign this release form" people.  I was there to help Jim Maynard person some tables for the FSP, LPNH and a third org that escapes me.  I spent the day flashing my FSP shirt in front of cameras.
Lindy's is famous for being visited by political candidates.  I think most prez candidates have been there since Kennedy.
The place is tiny, and, usually packed with customers, so, there was no room when the entourages showed up.
I still eat there when I am in Keene. Foods good, cheap and the help are friendly.

[alohamonkey]

For natural foods, there's a place called A Market.  This is not downtown, however.  It's on South Willow stcroot, in what looks like a stripmall, suggesting that there may be a choice between eating natural and burning fossil fuels.

A Market is a freestanding building, on what used to be a street that until fairly recently dead-ended in woods.  The strip mall and shopping center behind it, and the auto repair shop and gas station in front of it, were built later.  A Market is still a worthwhile destination, regardless of the new neighbors.

I just went to A Market for my first time last week.  I was pretty impressed.  Fresh veggies, good meat, organic everything . . . some items were a little pricy but others were very comparable to Stop N Shop and Hannaford's.  Just cooked up some portabellas from there last night and they were fantastic.  And I just went to Trader Joe's for my first time yesterday.  It's in Southern Nashua (maybe Mass??) and it only took about 35 minutes from my house.  It was my first visit there as well and I will most likely be a repeat customer. 

All of the places that you suggested living in are very accessible.  From Manch, it is:

15-20 minutes to Concord
30 minutes to Portsmouth
1-1.5 hr to Keene

I love living here . . . everything is close.  In Ohio, I would drive 3-4 hours each way to go to a concert and still never leave Ohio.  I can travel across 3-4 states here in the same amount of time. 

[FTL_Ian]

Keene

The city of Keene is famous, of course, not only because it is ground zero of the Porcupine Movement, but also for the [urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpkin_Fest]Annual Pumpkin Festival[/url].  Porcupines seem to have a dominant media presence in Keene, including a newspaper, a radio program, and they seem to be infiltrating the local cable access.

In terms of amenities, Keene has a UPS Store, a Starbucks (not downtown), a Borders Books, a Friendly's, a Subway.  There's a place called Lindy's Diner.  Anyone have knowledge of Lindy's?

Once when I was in Lindy's one of the waitresses shouted out to the customers when a local parking bureaucrat was poking around outside.  Talk about a staff that cares about its customers!

You should know that the Starbucks is .6 miles away from the UPS store which is located in the heart of downtown Keene.  Does that put the Starbucks in downtown?  I'm not sure, but it's damn close.  Also, there is another Starbucks in Keene located inside the Target.  Plus, right across from the stand-alone Starbucks is a Panera Bread which offers free WiFi and also has coffee drinks.  In addition, you'll find *several* local options for coffee.

To fill in a few gaps on the nationally known amenities, Keene also has Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Circuit City, Dick's Sporting Goods, Staples, Sears Essentials, JCPenney, Bed Bath and Beyond, Blockbuster, KB Toys, Petco, and more.

In addition to several locally owned stores, you will find regional chains here like Aubuchon's Hardware, and Eastern Mountain Sports.

Keene also has the usual national suspects for fast food like McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King (All three of which are located right next door to each other, and occasionally Wendy's will make fun of McDonald's on their marquee!),  Pizza Hut, Dominoes, Taco Bell, KFC, Subway...

You'll also find sit-down national chains like Chilli's, Olive Garden, and Longhorn Steakhouse.  Not to mention regional chains like Friendly's (2 on the same street!).

Of course there's a variety of locally owned restaurants as well as a large selection of Chinese takeout.  (I recommend King's Garden on Main Street.)

Although the population is small, about 20K, it looks like one could walk across town in less than ten minutes.

You could definitely bike it in 10 minutes...you may also want to know that there are handy bike trails running throughout the city!

A few other thoughts:

Portsmouth's downtown is just dreadful in comparison to Keene.  Parallel parking is everywhere and as a result the place seems very claustrophobic.  Keene claims to have the widest Main Street in all of America, and it is very luxurious!  Easy parking directly on Main Street, and parking garages available as well.

While Keene does not have a Gold's Gym, it does have a YMCA as well as a female-only gym and a 24-hour men's gym.

There is a locally owned natural/organic store called Blueberry Fields, and you'll find a *large* natural/organic selection in each major grocery store in town.  Grocery stores include the awesome Price Chopper (24 hour!), Shaws, and Hannaford's.

I hope that helps!

[Lloyd Danforth]

I'm guessing most of you are much younger than me.  You may move many times in your lifetime.  If an area has an initial appeal to you move there.  You don't have to stay there the rest of your life.  You just have to stay in NH the rest of your life.

[Lloyd Danforth]

But how many different places inside of NH?

[Dreepa]

Mackler.. I must say that that is good research!
+1
Concord also has a 'thriving downtown'.