My small stand...am I silly?

[d_goddard]

I think we have an eminently passable bill in the brewing here...

[hook]

Should I be compelled by force of government to get my property; dog, cat, horse, cow, etc. vaccinated?
Should I be compelled by force of government to get all the mammalian wildlife roaming on my property vaccinated? Any mammal can transmit Rabies. Is the Government responsible for my health and the health of my property or am I?

99% of human rabies fatalities come from dogs, so "all mammalian wildlife" is a red herring.

99% of all human automobile fatalities happen in cars. Should I be required to wear my seatbelt?

Education and persuasion, not coercion is the best way to accomplish something.

I agree, but is the practical goal to eliminate the state-mandated prior-restraint dog licensing provisions, or to eliminate coercion altogether?  I submit that a bill for the former would be more likely to pass than a bill for the latter.

Actually it wouldn't be. Licensing makes money for the state. Mandatory vaccinations wouldn't, unless "vaccination certificates" were only available through the state for a nominal fee.

Enforcing licensing which has provisions for mandatory vaccinations or having mandatory vaccinations is exactly the same thing. Mandatory vaccinations would be enforced in the same manner as the licensing.

Not quite - under a system of mandatory vaccinations, or a requirement to be able to prove current vaccination on demand, you would not be subject to punishment for refusing to rent your own dog from the state.

No, but you would be subject to punishment for not vaccinating or for not proving vaccination.

It be the same thing.

Why not make vaccinating easier. How about an oral vaccine, which does exist, be made available without a (state approved)prescription and without a (state licensed)vet.

Great idea!  How about putting that in Section II of the bill?

ok.

[mvpel]

No, but you would be subject to punishment for not vaccinating or for not proving vaccination.

It be the same thing.

Except right now, you're subject to punishment for not renting your dog from the state, regardless of whether or not you've vaccinated her.

[alohamonkey]

You know what...when you put it that way, 'renting the dog'...it makes me even more mad. That is exactly what this is...I bought the dog and did the right thing by getting her vaccinated against rabies and for that, I now have been reported and must pay my doggie rental fee.

Un-freakin'-believable.

You're absolutely right RattyDog.  We have lived in Manch for a year and a half without any problems.  The ONLY reason that the City found out about my dog was BECAUSE we had him vaccinated for rabies.  Once they found out about him, they decided to charge me a fee to have him here.  So . . . it's a system that punishes people by demanding $$$ from them when they do the right thing (i.e. vaccinate their dogs) and reward those that do the wrong thing (i.e. not vaccinate).  It's ass-backwards and it pisses me off.  I definitely think all dogs should be vaccinated but the way the system is set up now doesn't make any sense. 

[Russell Kanning]

Now would be a good time to ask the dogcatcher to quit his immoral job.

Don't blame the dog catcher - he's just earning a paycheck. His job is not immoral.

really? He is forcing something on our friend here. Not something that would be right for me to do ... maybe not him either.

[Russell Kanning]

This i part of the problem with the general fund concept.....no one really seems to see what goes in and what comes out. I think people would be far less irritated if they were paying this fee to their LOCAL community to support the animal chelter, the dog catcher, etc.

Local control, local control, local control.......

this working through the government thing can really feel like a treadmill .... can't it.

[Russell Kanning]

You know, one of the reasons I feel like a wack job....is that this all makes sooooo much sense to me and doesn't seem to make sense to 99% of folks out there. The way that we people here are talking about living, is the way a person should live, just...naturally. It makes sense to me.

It also makes sense to another portion of the population .... but they are too scared to act. How many people are in your situation, but you don't know about it? It could be 50%.

[Russell Kanning]

The majority of NH State Republicans -- especially in the House of Representatives -- are libertarian-leaning. They are not like the Republicans in Washington, DC.

except when it comes to

or anything that really matters to the power structure in DC

[Russell Kanning]

Some on this site will disagree with me but I think SMART voting is effective.

It is great for weight loss.

[Russell Kanning]

I think we have an eminently passable bill in the brewing here...

I'm excited...really excited.

We will be here when you hit rock bottom again.

[Ogre]

Enforcing licensing which has provisions for mandatory vaccinations or having mandatory vaccinations is exactly the same thing. Mandatory vaccinations would be enforced in the same manner as the licensing.

Not quite - under a system of mandatory vaccinations, or a requirement to be able to prove current vaccination on demand, you would not be subject to punishment for refusing to rent your own dog from the state.

No, but you would be subject to punishment for not vaccinating or for not proving vaccination.
It be the same thing.

I can easily see both sides of this.  I think rabies is a dangerous enough disease that it reaches the threshold of "imminent danger."  So how about a compromise:

You are not required to get a rabies vaccination -- however, any dog found on property not yours that does not display a current rabies tag is subject to being killed by anyone who suspects it may have rabies.  Oh, and if someone visits your house and gets rabies from your dog, you're liable (but that should be obvious).

[alohamonkey]

I can easily see both sides of this.  I think rabies is a dangerous enough disease that it reaches the threshold of "imminent danger."  So how about a compromise:

You are not required to get a rabies vaccination -- however, any dog found on property not yours that does not display a current rabies tag is subject to being killed by anyone who suspects it may have rabies.  Oh, and if someone visits your house and gets rabies from your dog, you're liable (but that should be obvious).

Nah.  I would never want to have kids playing in my yard if I wasn't sure that my neighbor's dog was vaccinated.  Plus, I don't think the dogs should be punished for negligent owners.  Chances are, the dog could be vaccinated but the owner didn't put the tags on them.  Obviously, I'd like no government intrusion but, for right now, I think the system is somewhat OK the way it is.  I just think they're wrong for charging us money for properly vaccinating the dog.  The vet sent them copies of the rabies vaccination.  They have all that they need.  Just file the friggin vaccination certificate and be done with it.  There's no need for a "tax/fee".  They're not providing me with any services except for wasting paper (the bills they're sending) and wasting taxpayer money (hiring people to call citizens and tell them they owe money to the city).  Fire the damn people that are calling us and there probably isn't even a need to have a tax on dogs anymore.  Problem solved. 

[kola]

There are many DVM's that oppose vaccines 100% or only use them only on a very limited basis.

Two high profile DVM's that come to mind are Dr Martin Goldstein and Dr Dan Moore.

I was never vaccinated nor were any of my animals (cats, dogs, horses etc). I know many other folks (and animals) that are unvaccinated as well and are quite healthy.

The vaccine propaganda machine has done a nice job on 95% of the public invoking fear and brainwashing people into believing vaccines have saved the planet from diseases.

A person who makes a choice not to vaccinate is not neglecting their child or an animal nor are they a threat to anyone else. In fact they are more informed about the pros and cons of vaccines than most other people. 95% of people have only heard one side of the story (from the CDC and MSM ) which is disinfo and misinfo). There is a mountain of info (med journals and stats) showing a completely different story. Before  someone makes assumptions and decisions both sides of the story should be scrutinized.

"I think that vaccines, justly credited as the tamers of disease epidemics, are nevertheless the leading killers of dogs and cats in America today."  Martin Goldstein, D.V.M.

Vaccines may cause the very disease they are supposed to suppress.  "Animals, like humans, may have been rendered more vulnerable to viral diseases by the very vaccines used to combat them."  Dr. Goldstein

"One of the saddest things in our practice is to restore a dog's health (sometimes after prolonged and careful work) only to have the animal suffer a relapse and go into a decline after we acquiesce to a required rabies vaccine."  Richard Pitcairn, D.V.M.

"Every skin problem you see is due to vaccinations without fail.  Later in life, arthritic situations and degenerative spinal dis-eases are the result of vaccines.  The rabies vaccine in dogs and cats causes so many problems it isn't funny...personality changes, skin changes, damage to the thyroid and endrocrine systems.  It lowers the immune system tremendously.  The animal becomes fair game to just about any disease."  John Fudens, D.V.M.

http://www.courageouscaucasians.com/vaccinations.htm

The truth is out there.

Kola

[kola]

Vaccination controversy
Are vaccinations beneficial or dangerous for our pets? This is a controversial topic. On the one hand, we're told that our dogs and cats should get yearly shots or we're not taking proper care of them. Most veterinarians send out yearly reminders to bring our pets in for their annual vaccinations. So we feel we're taking good care of our pets by doing this. But did you know that there is no scientifically proven reason to give pets annual vaccinations? Instead, it is done because of "historical precedent" or, in other words, "that's the way it's always been done". Since we are not vets at Optimum Choices, we would not presume to give you advice on how often or what to vaccinate your pets for. Instead, we will report on what veterinarians are saying about this topic and encourage you to do further research and make up your own mind on this issue.

Dr. Martin Goldstein, DVM, a leading holistic veterinarian, states "I think that vaccines, justly credited as the tamers of disease epidemics, are nevertheless the leading killers of dogs and cats in America today." Dr. Goldstein, a columnist for Animal Wellness Magazine, is the author of The Nature of Animal Healing, where he devotes a whole chapter to the problems caused by vaccines......con't http://www.optimumchoices.com/May_2005.htm

[Terry]

you are not silly you are right.  There are different fees for spayed animals and those that are not.  Why ?  It is just a way to get revenue from animal lovers.  I have a diffrent problem I am trying to rent a house but unfortunately have 3 dogs and 2 cats.  All well behaved but no....people are unwilling to rent to me.  I have found a place but have had to leave my cats behind in NY until I sell my house and can buy a house where I can do what I want and have as many animals as I want.

Good for you....we need to question what we are paying, for what and where it is going to.  If no one knows where it goes or what it is for we are all foolish for paying such a tax