Student Tasered in Front of John Kerry

[Braddogg]

Why did they try to restrain him?  Because he asked a question.  Why did he try to resist restraint?  Because he felt his right to freedom of speech was being squashed.  Why is this ok with you? 

If he waited his turn (instead of cutting the other people waiting in line) and didn't get a chance to use the mic and ask his question, would his "freedom of speech" have been "squashed" by the end of the Q&A session?

[alohamonkey]

Why did they try to restrain him?  Because he asked a question.  Why did he try to resist restraint?  Because he felt his right to freedom of speech was being squashed.  Why is this ok with you? 

If he waited his turn (instead of cutting the other people waiting in line) and didn't get a chance to use the mic and ask his question, would his "freedom of speech" have been "squashed" by the end of the Q&A session?

No.  But if you ask me a question and I am ready and willing to answer that question but MVPEL comes to you and says you can't ask that question and then tries to physically remove you from my presence . . . is MVPEL squashing your freedom of speech?

[Braddogg]

If it's occurring on his property, then no, of course not.  If it's occurring on my property, then it's assault.  The event was held on the property of UF; UF's representatives asked Andrew to leave, he refused.

Depriving someone of the opportunity to speak at a particular place and time is not the same as depriving someone of "freedom of speech."

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

 A story shared with my family:
A friend of ours has a friend who is a fireman. He bought a taser because he likes to collect things. One drunken night, sitting around with friends, he decides he wants to feel what it is like to be tasered. For the experience purposes. He tasered himself. Told his friends as they watched, it was the most miserable feeling and medical alert to the body he has ever felt. He does not like the tasers anymore and agrees they should not be used by police.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

Who's property? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida

[alohamonkey]

Who's property? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida

Wasn't it also a public forum?  Meaning open to the public. 

[Braddogg]

What, exactly, is the principle of action you're drawing here, Fuzzy?  It's a public university; what does that mean in terms of who can decide who stays and goes?  Who decides who speaks and in what order at a public forum?

[alohamonkey]

Who's property? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida

Wasn't it also a public forum?  Meaning open to the public. 

And he was a student of the University.  I don't know how ownership rights work with universities but I would think Andrew would retain some individual rights because he is paying into the institution and is an invited guest to the forum (it was open to the public I believe).  I was a student and I didn't relinquish all my rights once I stepped onto the university's property.  

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

http://dailybruin.com/news/2007/jan/18/student-files-lawsuit-over-tas/

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/20/1448245

Lawsuit.

[lildog]

Who's property? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida

Wasn't it also a public forum?  Meaning open to the public. 

This is a good point.  However let me ask you this hypothetical... I have a local rock band and I know that there will be national news crews etc at this even.  Would it be ok via freedom of speech for me and my band to walk in with generators and start playing one of our sets over powering anyone looking to speak with Kerry?  Let's even change the event around slightly to use a less repulsive key speaker... Let's say Ron Paul is speaking at the event and opening the floor to questions.  Again my band walks in with their own equipment and starts jamming away.  Are we free to do so because it's a public forum open to the public?

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

The student was engaged one on one with the guest speaker.

[alohamonkey]

Who's property? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida

Wasn't it also a public forum?  Meaning open to the public. 

This is a good point.  However let me ask you this hypothetical... I have a local rock band and I know that there will be national news crews etc at this even.  Would it be ok via freedom of speech for me and my band to walk in with generators and start playing one of our sets over powering anyone looking to speak with Kerry?  Let's even change the event around slightly to use a less repulsive key speaker... Let's say Ron Paul is speaking at the event and opening the floor to questions.  Again my band walks in with their own equipment and starts jamming away.  Are we free to do so because it's a public forum open to the public?

If you came in, plugged in, and started jamming . . . obviously Ron Paul would not be able to be heard.  But if it is an open forum and the public is invited and Ron Paul likes your music and starts dancing, then I don't see too much wrong with it.  I think the decision should be more of Ron's decision since it is impacting him the most. 

I think too much authority is being given to the police in the UF situation.  Andrew and Kerry had started a conversation when the police intervened.  I know Andrew jumped to the front of the line but Kerry did not have to engage him in a conversation at all.  By acknowledging his question and saying "that's a fair question, let me respond," Kerry gave the green light to discuss.  If Kerry said "you should wait your turn," it would have been a different story.  The police should only have intervened if Kerry asked or if Andrew was saying or doing something that was illegal/completely against UF's policies. 

What kind of an open forum is it when an institution doesn't allow the speaker or the attendee to discuss something that they both wanted to discuss?

[CNHT]

taze a 12 yr old girl? 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6468373/

This is worse -- they tasered a 6-year old boy who went nuts in his school?

I've seen many children go nuts like that and destroy the principal's office, and while on a rampage, pull down curtains, metal blinds, and break pictures and knock everything to the floor but usually when this happens, they call the 'men in the white coats' (ambulance) and put a straightjacket on them and take them to the hospital so they won't harm themselves.


Conclusion: The act of tasering to control people has already been abused and will continue to be abused if nothing is done about it.

[kola]

"We are seeing far too many cases where Tasers are not being used for their intended purposes," says Sheley Secrest, president of NAACP Seattle. "And many of these cases don't end up getting reported or properly investigated because people are so humiliated by the experience."


and another kid killed from a taser:

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2894/


and this bullshit:

This summer, the ACLU of Colorado filed a class action suit on behalf of prisoners in the Garfield County Jail, where jail staff have allegedly used Tasers and electroshock belts, restraint chairs, pepper spray and pepperball guns as methods of torture. According to Mark Silverstein, legal director for ACLU of Colorado, inmates have told him that Tasers are pulled out and "displayed" by officers on a daily basis, either as a form of intimidation and threat compliance, or to shock the inmates for disobeying orders.

A recent report from the ACLU's National Prison Project (NPP), "Abandoned and Abused: Orleans Parish Prisoners in the Wake of Hurricane Katrina," concerns the plight of the estimated 6,500 New Orleans prisoners left to fend for themselves in the days after the monumental New Orleans flood. The NPP's Tom Jawetz says that the organization has been looking into abuses at Orleans Parish Prison (OPP) since 1999, but that the incidents that took place in jails and prisons in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina were unprecedented.

Take the case of New Orleans resident Ivy Gisclair. Held at OPP for unpaid parking tickets, Gisclair was about to be released on his own recognizance when Hurricane Katrina hit. After languishing with thousands of other prisoners in a flooded jail, Gisclair was sent to the Bossier Parish Maximum Security Prison. Once there, Gisclair apparently had the nerve to inquire about being held past his release date. Gisclair has testified that he was then restrained and stunned repeatedly with a Taser, before being thrown, naked and unconscious, into solitary confinement.

"I can't imagine any justification for that," says Jawetz. "[Prison guards] were kicking, beating and 'Tasing' him until he lost consciousness. A line was crossed that should never have been crossed."

In March, Reuben Heath, a handcuffed and subdued Montana inmate, was shocked while lying prone in his bed. The deputy involved—a one-time candidate for sheriff—now faces felony charges.

Gisclair and Heath are among the inmates who have survived in-custody incidents involving the abuse of Tasers. Others haven't been as fortunate. This year alone, those who have died in custody in the aftermath of being stunned by Tasers include Arapahoe County Jail (Colorado) inmate Raul Gallegos-Reyes, 34, who was strapped to a restraint chair and stunned; Jerry Preyer, 45, who suffered from a severe mental illness in an Escambia County, Fla., jail and was shocked twice by a Taser; and Karl Marshall, 32, who died in Kansas City police custody two hours after he was stunned with PCP and crack cocaine in his system.



fuckin pissed,
Kola

[kola]

and lets take a look at these poor little gooncops:

Police in 5 states suing taser over injuries (multiple articles)
author: (1) The Associated Press (2) Arizona Republic

PHOENIX (AP) — Police officers in five states have sued the Arizona-based maker of
Tasers, claiming they were seriously injured after being shocked with the electronic stun
gun in training classes 
Police officers in 5 states suing stun-gun maker over injuries

PHOENIX (AP) — Police officers in five states have sued the Arizona-based maker of
Tasers, claiming they were seriously injured after being shocked with the electronic stun
gun in training classes.

In the past two weeks, four lawsuits have been filed in Maricopa County Superior Court
here on behalf of officers in Florida, Kansas, New Mexico and Ohio. A fifth was filed in
St. Louis.

The lawsuits accuse Taser International Inc. of encouraging officers to get shocked
during training and of hiding information on injuries to about a dozen other injured
officers.

----------

Police in 5 states sue Taser in past 2 weeks

Robert Anglen
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 20, 2005 12:00 AM

Police officers in five states filed lawsuits against Scottsdale-based Taser International over the past two weeks claiming they were seriously injured after being shocked with the electronic stun gun during training classes.

Among them is a Missouri police chief who says he suffered heart damage and two strokes when he volunteered to be shocked while hooked up to a cardiac monitor as a way to demonstrate the safety of the Taser to his officers.

Four of the suits were filed in Maricopa County Superior Court on behalf of officers in Florida, Kansas, New Mexico and Ohio who claim they suffered "severe and permanent" injuries, including multiple spinal fractures, burns, a shoulder dislocation and soft-tissue injuries.
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In St. Louis on Thursday, Hallsville Police Chief Pete Herring filed a lawsuit claiming "painful, permanent and progressive" hearing and vision loss and neurological damage in addition to the strokes and cardiac damage.

Chief agreed to do it


Herring's lawyer, Spencer Eisenmenger, said Friday that the chief agreed to be the first officer shocked during an April 2004 training class for the department's newly purchased Tasers.

"Chief Herring was attached to an EKG when he was shocked with a Taser . . . He agreed as chief of police to be the first person shocked," Eisenmenger said. "(Hallsville) has no Taser program right now."

The suits challenge Taser's principal safety claim and accuse the company of misleading law enforcement about the extent of potential injuries. They also accuse company officials of concealing reports of injuries to at least a dozen other law enforcement officers.

Taser has marketed the weapons to 7,000 law enforcement agencies. Company officials have not only encouraged police officers to experience Taser shocks, they have used those shocks to promote the gun's safety, claiming that 100,000 officers have been shocked without a single serious injury.

Taser statement


Taser Vice President Steve Tuttle said in a statement Friday that the company would fight all of the lawsuits.

"We are aware of the filings in Arizona and intend to aggressively fight any such claims," he said.

"We have not been served papers regarding the Missouri filing but will aggressively defend this matter."

In an Aug. 3 memo to law enforcement officials, Taser Chief Executive Officer Rick Smith acknowledged that, "we've had a small number of volunteers experience injuries similar to athletic exertion." But he said realistic training carries a risk of injury and suggested that the company should not be held liable for those injuries.

"Imagine if the shoe manufacturer Nike was sued every time an athlete sprained an ankle," Smith wrote.

Phoenix lawyer John Dillingham, who represents the police officers in Florida, Kansas, New Mexico and Ohio, said Smith's comparison is ridiculous.

Not the same as Nike


"This is not the same as wearing a Nike tennis shoe and spraining an ankle. It's more like breaking an ankle every time you tie the laces on a Nike shoe," he said.

"Every time an officer takes a hit from Taser, they are at risk."

In their lawsuits, the four officers allege they were injured in training classes between August 2003 and October 2004. They say that Taser instructors did not reveal any medical information suggesting that the guns could cause injuries and they claim the company has ignored important research suggesting the guns could be extremely dangerous, if not fatal.

Some allegations


The 104-page complaints filed Aug. 5 each allege that Taser was aware of injuries to other officers but did nothing to warn police departments, "knowing full well that such a reported serious injury would have devastating ramifications on its safety claims and, most importantly, its most-effective sales tool, the law enforcement training program."

Specifically, the lawsuits point to the injury of former Maricopa County sheriff's Deputy Samuel Powers, who filed the first product liability suit against Taser in February 2004 and claims that his back was fractured when he was shocked during a training exercise two years earlier.

Misreporting the facts?


Although Taser officials were notified of Powers' fractured back, four of the lawsuits accuse the company of continually misreporting the injury to shareholders and the public as a minor shoulder injury, even after a doctor hired by Taser concluded in September that a one-second Taser jolt was responsible for Powers fractured back.

Dillingham said that if Taser had taken steps to warn officers in September of the possibility of injury, other officers might have avoided being injured.

He pointed to Belle Glade (Fla.) police Officer John Gerdon, who claims in his lawsuit that he suffered spinal fractures and burns when he was shocked during a training class in October.

He said in his suit that Taser instructors and training materials all told him the stun gun had not and could not cause an injury.

In the Missouri suit, Police Chief Herring said he was given the same assurances before he demonstrated the device.

Eisenmenger said the chief, who is 6-foot-10 and weighs 300 pounds, insisted that he be hooked up to a machine that measures cardiac functions to show other officers that the stun gun was safe.

"He was assured by the defendant in this case that no harm could come of it," he said. 




http://www.saveourcivilliberties.org/en/2005/08/1179.shtml

good site btw

Kola