Manchester Business Traces Spent Ammo

[alohamonkey]

I know I've said this before but I'll say it again.  I was a hardcore Dem/Liberal/Anti-Gun person up until about 2 years ago when I moved to NH and discovered nhfree.com.  Then I realized my opinions/views have much more in common with Libertarianism than any other party.  I'm still a little wary of guns because I wasn't raised around them.  I now understand the need to preserve the right to bear arms because it is society's last defense against tyrrany.  I'm looking for people's opinions on this technology.  Any thoughts? 


http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Tracing+casings%2c+closing+cases&articleId=4c50af3c-1d8e-4fd5-b58b-06ab10ddbe0a

Tracing casings, closing cases

By TRENT SPINER
Union Leader Correspondent
11 hours, 55 minutes ago

TWO LOCAL INVENTORS have taken center stage in a national debate on gun violence with the creation of a technology that would allow police to track cartridges to the guns they were fired from.

"As a gun owner myself, as an NRA member, I look at the 99 percent of us that buy guns and don't commit heinous acts who get demonized by that small fraction who illegally get firearms and commit murders," said Todd Lizotte, who co-invented "micro stamping" technology with Orest Ohar. "What has really pushed us along was listening to people who have been affected by gun violence, especially gang-related gun violence."

Lizotte, director of emerging technology for Hitachi Via Mechanics Ltd., works with Ohar out of a small laboratory in Londonderry near Manchester-Boston Regional Airport.

Todd Lizotte says if his technology is implemented, police will be able to trace spent cartidges through a unique ID number.

Their technology allows gun manufacturers to laser-imprint a unique identification number on the firing pin, breech face and ejector assemblies of firearms. If found at a crime scene, police would be able find the number with a microscope and determine the original purchaser of the weapon through a manufacturer's database.

The California Legislature last month passed a bill requiring that all semi-automatic handguns sold in that state starting in 2010 would be equipped with this technology. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has until next week to either sign or veto the bill. If passed, manufacturers of firearms would need to decide if they will produce a separate product to meet California's proposed law or laser-imprint an identification number on all new semi-automatic handguns.

He said the technology will not affect anyone except criminals.

Lizotte said in a large number of shooting cases, the only evidence left behind is a bullet casing. Even if police could not determine the actual shooter in the crime, they would be able to track where the gun came from and how it ended up in a criminal's hands.

The technology is defeatable, though Lizotte said it is not easy to do.

"Our technology is capable of being enhanced further, but the reality is it's at that threshold where now it needs to be integrated into firearms," he said.

He said he will offer the technology to commercial manufacturers for free -- his ultimate goal is to sell the technology to governments. He said the worldwide black market for military-grade weapons could be better tracked if countries laser-imprinted weapons they sold before shipping them overseas. The added cost of firearms with laser-imprints would be minimal, he said.

He also said he supports no political agenda regarding firearms.

"Technology is technology," he said.

[KBCraig]

Any thoughts?

I had already left my thoughts in the comments section:

It's poor "technology", if you can call it that. All the affected parts can be switched out in less than 15 minutes in the vast majority of semi-automatic handguns. None of them are "controlled" parts, meaning they're not serial numbered or traceable in any way. The microstamp is so shallow that a few seconds with a dremel tool will render its marks illegible. Or failing that, a good weekend on the range, firing a typical 500-1,000 rounds, will render the "technology" useless. And of course it's worth noting that not a single crime has been solved through "ballistic fingerprinting"; the microstamping will be no different.

[mvpel]

This is just another example of business rent-seeking - trying to use the coercive force of the government to create a market and stifle competition for their products.

It'd be shameful if the product was lima beans, and it's even more shameful that the product is constitutionally-protected firearms.

What good does it do you to be able to find the owner of a stolen firearm via microstamping?  How does that further the solving of the crime?

Next thing you know after this project falls flat because all the crooks have switched to revolvers, they'll want to ban revolvers and brass-catchers.

[error]

Always pick up your fired cases.

[Lasse]

Always pick up your fired cases.

And then reload them.

[ny2nh]

Ironically, one of the developers is a very libertarian-minded guy. He explained this technology to me years ago - right after he showed me his prior nano-technology invention under this insane microscope - to be honest I never 100% understood either!.

[Ogre]

This is just another example of business rent-seeking

I like that term.

And yes, this article doesn't seem to mention what happens with reloading cartridges.

[sandm000]

So the market solution would be more guns firing Caseless ammunition.

[mvpel]

Since the imprint is on the firing pin, reloads would have a fresh surface for the numbering.

Another attempt at this sort of crime-fighting method:

Ballistic Imaging - Not Ready for Prime Time

Note the figure on page 4 - a match rate against recovered guns of 0.16% on cartridge cases against 166,672 images, and page 5 indicates a cost of $12,000 per case match, and $195,000 per bullet match.

Crimes are solved by good police work, not by fancy computer databases.

[Lasse]

So the market solution would be more guns firing Caseless ammunition.

Being a gun enthusiast in California is already no good because of stupid drop test laws and things like that which means gun makers have to make 'California approved' models (this comes in addition to their anachronistic, idiotic 'AWB'). The market in California is already cartelized because of the specific laws. With the microstamping, even fewer gun makers will bother with California, it's a fairly limited market to specialise guns for with all the restrictions.

This is just a result of federalism, though. California is an anti-gun state. They will pass anti-gun laws. Perhaps this will make those few liberty lovers and gun enthusiasts still living in California for some insane reason think about their situation and pack their stuff.

[sandm000]

Being a gun enthusiast in California is already no good because of stupid drop test laws and things like that which means gun makers have to make 'California approved' models (this comes in addition to their anachronistic, idiotic 'AWB'). The market in California is already cartelized because of the specific laws. With the microstamping, even fewer gun makers will bother with California, it's a fairly limited market to specialise guns for with all the restrictions.

This is just a result of federalism, though. California is an anti-gun state. They will pass anti-gun laws. Perhaps this will make those few liberty lovers and gun enthusiasts still living in California for some insane reason think about their situation and pack their stuff.

And passing all those laws isn't going to stop people with evil intent from driving through the Nevada desert with a trunk full of "illegal" guns.  Unless one of the laws is a giant metal detecting fence.  And event then there will be shipping containers coming from china or other ports with a gun hidden in a shipment of hello kitty backpacks. And they could well impose a 100% inspection rate for incoming goods, but it would really bog down commerce.  Guns will never, ever go away, especially if they can be made out of plumbing pipe. http://www.fortliberty.org/military-library/improvised-munitions-handbook/improvised-munitions-handbook.shtml

Because you are more dead if you are killed with an "illegal" 'unregistered' gun, than just a gun, and even more dead than those people who were stabbed or poisoned.

[Lasse]

Being a gun enthusiast in California is already no good because of stupid drop test laws and things like that which means gun makers have to make 'California approved' models (this comes in addition to their anachronistic, idiotic 'AWB'). The market in California is already cartelized because of the specific laws. With the microstamping, even fewer gun makers will bother with California, it's a fairly limited market to specialise guns for with all the restrictions.

This is just a result of federalism, though. California is an anti-gun state. They will pass anti-gun laws. Perhaps this will make those few liberty lovers and gun enthusiasts still living in California for some insane reason think about their situation and pack their stuff.

And passing all those laws isn't going to stop people with evil intent from driving through the Nevada desert with a trunk full of "illegal" guns.  Unless one of the laws is a giant metal detecting fence.  And event then there will be shipping containers coming from china or other ports with a gun hidden in a shipment of hello kitty backpacks. And they could well impose a 100% inspection rate for incoming goods, but it would really bog down commerce.  Guns will never, ever go away, especially if they can be made out of plumbing pipe. http://www.fortliberty.org/military-library/improvised-munitions-handbook/improvised-munitions-handbook.shtml

Because you are more dead if you are killed with an "illegal" 'unregistered' gun, than just a gun, and even more dead than those people who were stabbed or poisoned.

There is not a single anti-gun person on this board (except for the trolls, I know EA thinks gun control is okay because it's part of his 'social contract' with the government), so you're preaching to the choir.

[sandm000]

I was just pointing out the futility of the Californian Government to even try such a thing as enacting Gun Laws.

[John C]

What a way to frame someone.

[sandm000]

You mean by picking up a handful of their spent brass and then dropping it at a crime scene?