This joker from the anti-SVR blog spews some nonsense

[Thomas Rowley]

A similar anonymous web "hit job" was done on the Second Vermont Republic that included hit pieces on Thomas DiLorenzo of the Mises and Jason.

http://www.vermontsecession.blogspot.com/

The only "hit job" is your own specious and seemingly anonymous post, "Ethan."  Care to dispute a single fact or statement attributed to DiLorenzo?

The only time that I have ever posted about Jason Sorens is to point out that I haven't.

Fact is that after I, along with other Vermont bloggers, began posting about SVR's questionable associations with white separatists like DiLorenzo and his colleagues in the League of the South, Thomas Naylor launched a purge of the Vermonters on his advisory board who were troubled by such associations and the community criticism it caused for SVR.  Since then, Naylor has even widened his circle of "friends" to include racist, neo-Conferderate types like James Edwards at The Political Cesspool.  Naylor also sought to damage one blogger's employment by making a false and baseless suggestion to his employer that the blogger had participated in a radio program while at work.

Next time get your facts straight, "Ethan."  That's what distinguishes a discussion that someone like Naylor would rather not have, so that Vermonters could make a truly informed decision about the secession movement and its potential downside, from a "hit job."

Thomas Rowley

[MengerFan]

Thomas, I have no idea who you are, but you have instantly established yourself as having absolutely no credibility when you refer to Tom DiLorenzo as a "white separatist".

[Thomas Rowley]

Thomas, I have no idea who you are, but you have instantly established yourself as having absolutely no credibility when you refer to Tom DiLorenzo as a "white separatist".

Really?  Do a little research of yourself and you'll find that not only is DiLorenzo a member and avid supporter of the avowed white separatist organization, The League of the South, but that he also teaches at the League of the South Institute for the Study of Southern Culture and History!  His writings on the civil rights provided for under the 14th Amendment and his disdain for the its equal protection and due process clauses are available for you to read for yourself.

White supremacists like James Edwards at The Political Cesspool are enamoured with the genteel cover that academics like DiLorenzo and Naylor give their repugnant views.  Here's a recent promotion of a broadcast of an interview of DiLorenzo at the notorious Stormfront.org website.

I really have no stake in your conversation here and merely stopped by to correct the record, as well as respond to the "hit" performed by "Ethan Allen."  Your uninformed comment undermine your own credibility as a thoughtful person, MengerFan, whoever you are.

Thomas Rowley

[MengerFan]

Thomas, I have no idea who you are, but you have instantly established yourself as having absolutely no credibility when you refer to Tom DiLorenzo as a "white separatist".

Really?  Do a little research of yourself and you'll find that not only is DiLorenzo a member and avid supporter of the avowed white separatist organization, The League of the South, but that he also teaches at the League of the South Institute for the Study of Southern Culture and History!  His writings on the civil rights provided for under the 14th Amendment and his disdain for the its equal protection and due process clauses are available for you to read for yourself.

White supremacists like James Edwards at The Political Cesspool are enamoured with the genteel cover that academics like DiLorenzo and Naylor give their repugnant views.  Here's a recent promotion of a broadcast of an interview of DiLorenzo at the notorious Stormfront.org website.

I really have no stake in your conversation here and merely stopped by to correct the record, as well as respond to the "hit" performed by "Ethan Allen."  Your uninformed comment undermine your own credibility as a thoughtful person, MengerFan, whoever you are.

Thomas Rowley

Look, I don't know about every one of Tom's academic affiliations, but I have known the dude personally and followed his work for ten years. Not a white separatist, racist, or any such.

I will go ahead and check out this info, though.

[Tom Sawyer]

Thomas, I have no idea who you are, but you have instantly established yourself as having absolutely no credibility when you refer to Tom DiLorenzo as a "white separatist".

Really?  Do a little research of yourself and you'll find that not only is DiLorenzo a member and avid supporter of the avowed white separatist organization, The League of the South, but that he also teaches at the League of the South Institute for the Study of Southern Culture and History!  His writings on the civil rights provided for under the 14th Amendment and his disdain for the its equal protection and due process clauses are available for you to read for yourself.

White supremacists like James Edwards at The Political Cesspool are enamoured with the genteel cover that academics like DiLorenzo and Naylor give their repugnant views.  Here's a recent promotion of a broadcast of an interview of DiLorenzo at the notorious Stormfront.org website.

I really have no stake in your conversation here and merely stopped by to correct the record, as well as respond to the "hit" performed by "Ethan Allen."  Your uninformed comment undermine your own credibility as a thoughtful person, MengerFan, whoever you are.

Thomas Rowley

Stormfront linked to a video I made of Dave Ridley's open carry incident... does that make me a NeoNazi?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI

[Thomas Rowley]

Thomas, I have no idea who you are, but you have instantly established yourself as having absolutely no credibility when you refer to Tom DiLorenzo as a "white separatist".

Really?  Do a little research of yourself and you'll find that not only is DiLorenzo a member and avid supporter of the avowed white separatist organization, The League of the South, but that he also teaches at the League of the South Institute for the Study of Southern Culture and History!  His writings on the civil rights provided for under the 14th Amendment and his disdain for the its equal protection and due process clauses are available for you to read for yourself.

White supremacists like James Edwards at The Political Cesspool are enamoured with the genteel cover that academics like DiLorenzo and Naylor give their repugnant views.  Here's a recent promotion of a broadcast of an interview of DiLorenzo at the notorious Stormfront.org website.

I really have no stake in your conversation here and merely stopped by to correct the record, as well as respond to the "hit" performed by "Ethan Allen."  Your uninformed comment undermine your own credibility as a thoughtful person, MengerFan, whoever you are.

Thomas Rowley

Stormfront linked to a video I made of Dave Ridley's open carry incident... does that make me a NeoNazi?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI

Not necessarily but then I know nothing about you and, anyway, that wasn't my point.  DiLorenzo and Naylor have been willing participants on Edwards vile program.  His audience is primarily a white separatist one and he makes no bones about that.  The Stormfont promotional link illustrates that fact. 

The darkside of the secessionist movement is open for discussion when people like Naylor, who has been deeply involved with white supremacist groups like LoS for decades and was at the founding of the racist Southern Party, relocate to a state for what seems to be the purpose of furthering his secessionist agenda.  Vermonters have a right to know who they're getting involved with, even if that causes discomfort for secession proponents.  If you've followed the controversy, it wasn't the revelations, in and of themselves, that were the primary problem for SVR and Naylor; it was his reaction, the purge and his continuing associations with racists and white separatists.  Vermonters have a right to all the facts and not just those that Naylor would have us know.

If you've looked at his websites you'll see that Naylor routinely posts his media events.  In fact, he's something of a media whore, yet he hasn't posted about his Edwards interview.  Vermonters have a right to come to their own conclusions about why that might be.

As I said, "I really have no stake in your conversation here and merely stopped by to correct the record, as well as respond to the "hit" performed by "Ethan Allen."  Perhaps you might also do me the courtesy of not misrepresenting my intentions by your comparing of apples to oranges as when you made that reference to your own Stormfront experience.

Thomas Rowley

[Thomas Rowley]

Care to dispute a single fact or statement attributed to DiLorenzo?

Yes, all of those Vanguard Network News posts from your cohorts on their sites are re-posts from Mises and LewRockwell sites making it look like DiLorenzo posted them at VNN.

Since the link you gave was to my site alone and you labeled it a "hit job," my question was naturally limited to my site.  Care to give it another try?

Thomas Rowley

[EthanAllen]

Care to dispute a single fact or statement attributed to DiLorenzo?

Yes, all of those Vanguard Network News posts from your cohorts on their sites are re-posts from Mises and LewRockwell sites making it look like DiLorenzo posted them at VNN.

Since the link you gave was to my site alone and you labeled it a "hit job," my question was naturally limited to my site.  Care to give it another try?

Do you not link to them on your site?
Have you not posted comments on their sites?

Does not the post on Naylor and references to the VNN web forum draw a similar guilt by association?

[jsorens]

Thomas, I have no idea who you are, but you have instantly established yourself as having absolutely no credibility when you refer to Tom DiLorenzo as a "white separatist".

Really?  Do a little research of yourself and you'll find that not only is DiLorenzo a member and avid supporter of the avowed white separatist organization, The League of the South, but that he also teaches at the League of the South Institute for the Study of Southern Culture and History!  His writings on the civil rights provided for under the 14th Amendment and his disdain for the its equal protection and due process clauses are available for you to read for yourself.

The LotS is a complex organization. Their president is clearly a racist, in my view, as are many of their members. However, some of their chief ideologues (at least in the past) have not had a racist bone in their bodies. It may well be that they have compromised themselves excessively by associating with people who are racists and providing them some political cover (although these same people have on occasion denounced racist tendencies within the Southern secessionist movement). I think Tom Naylor's failing has not been secret racist aspirations but political tone-deafness: a willingness to overlook any & all other political differences to achieve the grail of secession. I also don't think he "purged" anybody, but that a number of people voluntarily left his organization because of their disappointment at SVR's indirect ties with the LotS. He hasn't even purged me from the SVR advisory board, even though I don't support secession. Finally, I don't blame him for complaining to a blogger's employer about his blogging on the taxpayer's dime. Unfortunately, the blogosphere debate about the Vermont secessionist movement got really personal & nasty really quickly - which you yourself have contributed to, I must say.

[Thomas Rowley]

Care to dispute a single fact or statement attributed to DiLorenzo?

Yes, all of those Vanguard Network News posts from your cohorts on their sites are re-posts from Mises and LewRockwell sites making it look like DiLorenzo posted them at VNN.

Since the link you gave was to my site alone and you labeled it a "hit job," my question was naturally limited to my site.  Care to give it another try?

Do you not link to them on your site?
Have you not posted comments on their sites?

Does not the post on Naylor and references to the VNN web forum draw a similar guilt by association?

So, you've got nothing then.

I see you avoided the long discussions about what was posted and how it was Vanguard that labeled his content incorrectly as being from him.  Nice try though.  Bill, is it?

As for the new stuff you'd now like to bring up since you've shown that you have nothing, I'll say again, as I've said above, that it's fair for Vermonters to make judgements about Naylor's longtime associations with bigots and his continuing efforts to reach out to that crowd in pursuit of his agenda.

Thomas Rowley

[Thomas Rowley]

Thomas, I have no idea who you are, but you have instantly established yourself as having absolutely no credibility when you refer to Tom DiLorenzo as a "white separatist".

Really?  Do a little research of yourself and you'll find that not only is DiLorenzo a member and avid supporter of the avowed white separatist organization, The League of the South, but that he also teaches at the League of the South Institute for the Study of Southern Culture and History!  His writings on the civil rights provided for under the 14th Amendment and his disdain for the its equal protection and due process clauses are available for you to read for yourself.

The LotS is a complex organization. Their president is clearly a racist, in my view, as are many of their members. However, some of their chief ideologues (at least in the past) have not had a racist bone in their bodies. It may well be that they have compromised themselves excessively by associating with people who are racists and providing them some political cover (although these same people have on occasion denounced racist tendencies within the Southern secessionist movement). I think Tom Naylor's failing has not been secret racist aspirations but political tone-deafness: a willingness to overlook any & all other political differences to achieve the grail of secession. I also don't think he "purged" anybody, but that a number of people voluntarily left his organization because of their disappointment at SVR's indirect ties with the LotS. He hasn't even purged me from the SVR advisory board, even though I don't support secession. Finally, I don't blame him for complaining to a blogger's employer about his blogging on the taxpayer's dime. Unfortunately, the blogosphere debate about the Vermont secessionist movement got really personal & nasty really quickly - which you yourself have contributed to, I must say.

Actually, Jason, Michael Hill has conducted a purge of his own, as has been the case in other racist neo-Confederate groups of late.  That you chose to turn a blind eye to these characters calling the tune is your business.  Dan DeWalt would probably disagree that he left voluntarily, as would Robert Riversong, perhaps, and as would others who were unwilling to quietly accept what you'd generously characterize "tone-deafness."  Naylor's complaint pertained to a day when the blogger was at home.  You'd need to explain further how the "taxpayer's dime" is involved since I'm not aware that the employer is a federal, state or municipal agency, or is that just another example of the fast and loose with the facts atmosphere that seems to dominate on this forum.  If so, I'll chalk it up as such and move on.

I make no apology for the facts as I presented them.  All the "spinning," as you seem to be doing here yourself, personal attacks and the nastiness that characterized what Naylor and his small group almost instantly engaged in when the discussion was no longer under their iron-fisted control, is a matter you should take up with them.

SVR is going nowhere.  Naylor can pay for all the reverse sorts of, methodologically suspect push polls that he wants to but that'll never give him the real numbers necessary to make his self described fantasies so.

[EthanAllen]

I see you avoided the long discussions about what was posted and how it was Vanguard that labeled his content incorrectly as being from him.

So you agree with me it was not DiLorenzo who posted on the VNN site itself but copies of his posts at the Mises and LewRockwell blog to make it look like he posted there?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Dang I find myself feeling like defending Bill... 

Went to Thomas's blog and he seems to think anyone that has a problem with Federal Civil Rights laws is a bigot.
I admire people like Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King... they brought about changes that were long over do.

To hell with Morris Dees and his fear mongering Southern Poverty Law Center. He makes his living keeping yuppie liberals afraid.

[jsorens]

Thomas, I have no idea who you are, but you have instantly established yourself as having absolutely no credibility when you refer to Tom DiLorenzo as a "white separatist".

Really?  Do a little research of yourself and you'll find that not only is DiLorenzo a member and avid supporter of the avowed white separatist organization, The League of the South, but that he also teaches at the League of the South Institute for the Study of Southern Culture and History!  His writings on the civil rights provided for under the 14th Amendment and his disdain for the its equal protection and due process clauses are available for you to read for yourself.

The LotS is a complex organization. Their president is clearly a racist, in my view, as are many of their members. However, some of their chief ideologues (at least in the past) have not had a racist bone in their bodies. It may well be that they have compromised themselves excessively by associating with people who are racists and providing them some political cover (although these same people have on occasion denounced racist tendencies within the Southern secessionist movement). I think Tom Naylor's failing has not been secret racist aspirations but political tone-deafness: a willingness to overlook any & all other political differences to achieve the grail of secession. I also don't think he "purged" anybody, but that a number of people voluntarily left his organization because of their disappointment at SVR's indirect ties with the LotS. He hasn't even purged me from the SVR advisory board, even though I don't support secession. Finally, I don't blame him for complaining to a blogger's employer about his blogging on the taxpayer's dime. Unfortunately, the blogosphere debate about the Vermont secessionist movement got really personal & nasty really quickly - which you yourself have contributed to, I must say.

Actually, Jason, Michael Hill has conducted a purge of his own, as has been the case in other racist neo-Confederate groups of late.  That you chose to turn a blind eye to these characters calling the tune is your business.

Eh? To be clear, I think the people currently "calling the tune" in the LotS trade on slavery apologetics & other racist rhetorical tactics, but there are plenty of people who have been associated with the LotS who have never had truck with such things. Including, most prominently, Don Livingston.

Dan DeWalt would probably disagree that he left voluntarily, as would Robert Riversong, perhaps, and as would others who were unwilling to quietly accept what you'd generously characterize "tone-deafness."  Naylor's complaint pertained to a day when the blogger was at home.  You'd need to explain further how the "taxpayer's dime" is involved since I'm not aware that the employer is a federal, state or municipal agency, or is that just another example of the fast and loose with the facts atmosphere that seems to dominate on this forum.  If so, I'll chalk it up as such and move on.

Sorry for not following every abstruse twist and turn of this teapot-tempest drama.  Last I had heard, the blogger had posted while at work. Maybe Tom Naylor also thought he was posting from work, which is presumably why he made his complaint.

[EthanAllen]

Thomas Naylor launched a purge of the Vermonters on his advisory board who were troubled by such associations and the community criticism it caused for SVR.

Dan DeWalt would probably disagree that he left voluntarily, as would Robert Riversong

Are you suggesting RR was on the advisory board?

Marco Bassani from Mises also left the board around the same time.