Muslim threat to our way of life

[Riddler]

At first it sounds like a well thought out argument until you realize that its just religious discrimination (my god is better than yours.)

All religions are slavery. Thats what religion does, it enslaves your mind. To say that one is better than others is naive and ignorant and I don't care who you are.

To think that Muslims are all killers just because of their religion is just dumb. Turn off FOX news and do something productive with your time. Did Mohamed Ali kill a bunch of people? No, in fact he protested the war and the draft. You must remember, there are stupid people in EVERY religion. Terrorism is just the last effort when all other methods are gone.

BTW, Both me and my nephew have been adversely affected by the Patriot Act and if it can affect us then it can affect ANYONE, so fuck you for bringing it up.

You can, at least ,elaborate

[Riddler]

Not ALL Muslims are terrorists, but so far, ALL terrorists ARE Muslims
(shut up about McVeigh.......1 guy going after the govt.)
And no, I don't think MY religion is better...non-practicing, myself.
Also, All other religions aren't presently strapping bombs to their children to kill other non-believers. Why are Iraqis killing each other w/ such abandon?
(sing this to the tune of "If you're happy & you know it")

Oh, the sunnis hate the shiites, hate the kurds,
Oh, the sunnis hate the shiites, hate the kurds,
Oh, your mother was a jackal, I will kill you and I'll hack you,
Oh, the sunnis hate the shiites, hate the kurds..

[PattyLee loves dogs]

Not ALL Muslims are terrorists, but so far, ALL terrorists ARE Muslims

That's news to the Tamils, the Rwandans, the "Lord's Resistance Army", the Ukrainians, the Armenians, the Jews...

Are you using some definition of "terrorist" where it doesn't count if you kill over 3,000 people? Because Mao killed 60 million Chinese, 90% of them during "peacetime"... then there's Stalin, then that "younger brother of God" that started the Taiping movement, then Hitler, then (not in order) Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Chiang Kai-Shek, Roosevelt (not talking about the civilians killed in fire raids, I'm just counting the 2.5 million Russians we rounded up after WWII and sent to Stalin's death camps), Julius Nyerere... I could go on for pages. Rummel in Death By Government says that assorted governments killed over 200 million people in the 20th century, NOT COUNTING THE WARS. Muslim terrorism is a rounding error compared to the overall death toll of non-Muslim government terror... and Muslim terrorism didn't affect the US until long after the US started funding "regime change", terrorist groups and other mayhem in Muslim countries.

There are certainly nutty Muslims, and the British and US have built up the nuttiest factions (Wahabis, the ISI) for their own purposes (and we made sure the ISI got nukes, while carefully disarming the Swedes, Swiss, Taiwanese, South Koreans, and a dozen other countries much more likely to mind their own business). Hunting down specific terrorist groups that actually attacked us would be a GREAT idea (instead of, say, invading Iraq while letting Osama go). But to go into panic about guys with boxcutters and ignore the many unstable political factions with access to hundreds to thousands of nuclear weapons is pretty nutty too.

(Somehow we got through the threat of WWIII under the Constitution, but a couple of skyscrapers fall down on TV and we have to surrender the country to Halliburton without firing a shot  )

Instead of trying to start "Crusades II" on a solid foundation of religious hatred, we should be emulating the Swiss. They have universal civil defense shelters and training, but stay the heck out of other people's countries... while we spend as much as the rest of the world combined on armed forces for invading other countries, and have no defense for civilians at all.

[KBCraig]

+1 to telomerase. Excellent comparison!

[BaneOfTheBeast]

it's not just about welfare, Bill
Radical Islam IS the hitler of the 21st century.
They won't stop until ALL infidels have been conquered or converted (convert or die)
Pretty simple

You cannot be serious!?
That is such a painfully outrageous and misinformed statement.

This article you present is just garbage propaganda, designed to make you see Muslims as sub human - so that you'll be less sympathetic to the death of innocent Muslim civilians... you'll be less likely to complain about their deaths at our hands.

And why on earth are you bringing this type of article to this type of forum!? You're promoting the government imposing (aka: pissing) on my liberties.

[shyfrog]

I used to go out to coffee with a Persian (Iranian) when I lived in Utah during the late 80s and early 90s.
We spent a lot of time talking about the situation out there. His girlfriend and family still lived there and he was going to school here.
He loved the USA. He really loved the people here and wanted, more than anything to get his family out here.
He had some reservations about the government though. But he also had reservations about his own.
He spoke about radical fundamentalism. He said "when they come and they kill your family for no reason than being at the wrong place at the wrong time, you become a different person. There is no other apparent avenue for a man to take. The cycle continues..."
Last time I talked to him, his girlfriend died in one of the big earthquakes they had out there.

Another friend of mine is also Persian. He was born en route to the US as his family escaped Iran during the Revolution.
I remember sitting down at a dinner his family hosted one night (omg best hummus and tabouli EVER). Listening to his mother recount the story of their escape was one of the most eye-opening, influencing moments in regards to my views concerning the middle east. She recounted how the majority of the people she knew and dealt with were very amenable to the ideas of freedom and the USA. She was visibly shaken by the extremists views, but offered that she could see where they get their justification.

Imagine, if you will, the Chinese Red Army setting foot on our soil to "liberate" us from tyranny. Imagine some of these soldiers acting on suspicion, testosterone, and itchy trigger fingers because they know that there's a gun behind every blade of grass. Imagine when they start indiscriminately shooting women and children, perhaps your wife and daughter, at the slightest provocation. If you can start to imagine this scenario, then maybe you can begin to understand militant Islam.

The only good Red is Dead, right? hmm

"Do they hate us because of who we are? Or do they hate us because of what we do?" -Ron Paul

[Riddler]

Not ALL Muslims are terrorists, but so far, ALL terrorists ARE Muslims

That's news to the Tamils, the Rwandans, the "Lord's Resistance Army", the Ukrainians, the Armenians, the Jews...

Are you using some definition of "terrorist" where it doesn't count if you kill over 3,000 people? Because Mao killed 60 million Chinese, 90% of them during "peacetime"... then there's Stalin, then that "younger brother of God" that started the Taiping movement, then Hitler, then (not in order) Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Chiang Kai-Shek, Roosevelt (not talking about the civilians killed in fire raids, I'm just counting the 2.5 million Russians we rounded up after WWII and sent to Stalin's death camps), Julius Nyerere... I could go on for pages. Rummel in Death By Government says that assorted governments killed over 200 million people in the 20th century, NOT COUNTING THE WARS. Muslim terrorism is a rounding error compared to the overall death toll of non-Muslim government terror... and Muslim terrorism didn't affect the US until long after the US started funding "regime change", terrorist groups and other mayhem in Muslim countries.

There are certainly nutty Muslims, and the British and US have built up the nuttiest factions (Wahabis, the ISI) for their own purposes (and we made sure the ISI got nukes, while carefully disarming the Swedes, Swiss, Taiwanese, South Koreans, and a dozen other countries much more likely to mind their own business). Hunting down specific terrorist groups that actually attacked us would be a GREAT idea (instead of, say, invading Iraq while letting Osama go). But to go into panic about guys with boxcutters and ignore the many unstable political factions with access to hundreds to thousands of nuclear weapons is pretty nutty too.

(Somehow we got through the threat of WWIII under the Constitution, but a couple of skyscrapers fall down on TV and we have to surrender the country to Halliburton without firing a shot  )

Instead of trying to start "Crusades II" on a solid foundation of religious hatred, we should be emulating the Swiss. They have universal civil defense shelters and training, but stay the heck out of other people's countries... while we spend as much as the rest of the world combined on armed forces for invading other countries, and have no defense for civilians at all.

Apparently, I wasn't clear enough...I was talking abou WITHIN this country.....so sorry

[Riddler]

it's not just about welfare, Bill
Radical Islam IS the hitler of the 21st century.
They won't stop until ALL infidels have been conquered or converted (convert or die)
Pretty simple

You cannot be serious!?
That is such a painfully outrageous and misinformed statement.

This article you present is just garbage propaganda, designed to make you see Muslims as sub human - so that you'll be less sympathetic to the death of innocent Muslim civilians... you'll be less likely to complain about their deaths at our hands.

And why on earth are you bringing this type of article to this type of forum!? You're promoting the government imposing (aka: pissing) on my liberties.

I sir, am not the one MAKING this up....this is directly from the mouths of some of the leading clerics & imams of radical islam.

[grasshopper]

  OK, I'll chime in now.  If terrorists attack in this country, "lightning did it". (Kalifonia fires).  (now listen very carefully)  If a terrorist lights up an airplain in Manchester with a laser range finder within clear view of the prison, (ya, checked out probable sniper access from the bar to known points, they led to the prison) clearly when the feds were in town and politicians!!!!!! (I'm getting angry)   Nope, not terrorists, FEDS!  (nothing to see here).
   Look, lets not feed on ourselves.  If a terrorists attacks, the USA will kill them, foreign or domestic.  There are millions of firearms in this country, we also know who the socialists are and their time line for world domination   They know we are all armed, why would they mess with the American people?  They can't be insane???
   Nope, I don't see what is in front of me.  (great quote)
   If a plain goes down in Manchester, I KNOW the "----" did it.  I can even trace the laser range finder within a few models and trace it from there by sales.
   My point?   We have lost more rites to polititions and alphabet cops than we have to terrorists.
   Feds looking at this, Is this what you signed up for?

[mvpel]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali escaped Islamic totalitarianism in Kenya and gained refugee status in the Netherlands, where she later served as a member of Parliament from 2003 to 2006.  She continues to be subject to serious threats to her life following the murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh by an enraged Dutch-born Muslim as a result of van Gogh's production of the film Submission (YouTube link), which Ms. Hirsi Ali encouraged him to make and for which she wrote the script.  She recently joined the American Enterprise Institute and lives in Washington DC.  The following is an excerpt from her interview with Reason magazine.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/122457.html

Reason: Should we acknowledge that organized religion has sometimes sparked precisely the kinds of emancipation movements that could lift Islam into modern times? Slavery in the United States ended in part because of opposition by prominent church members and the communities they galvanized. The Polish Catholic Church helped defeat the Jaruzelski puppet regime. Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?

Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.

Reason: Don't you mean defeating radical Islam?

Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it's defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It's very difficult to even talk about peace now. They're not interested in peace.

Reason: We have to crush the world's 1.5 billion Muslims under our boot? In concrete terms, what does that mean, "defeat Islam"?

Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there's no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they're the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, "This is a warning. We won't accept this anymore." There comes a moment when you crush your enemy.

Reason: Militarily?

Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don't do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed.

Reason: Are we really heading toward anything so ominous?

Hirsi Ali: I think that's where we're heading. We're heading there because the West has been in denial for a long time. It did not respond to the signals that were smaller and easier to take care of. Now we have some choices to make. This is a dilemma: Western civilization is a celebration of life—everybody's life, even your enemy's life. So how can you be true to that morality and at the same time defend yourself against a very powerful enemy that seeks to destroy you?

...
The Western mind-set—that if we respect them, they're going to respect us, that if we indulge and appease and condone and so on, the problem will go away—is delusional. The problem is not going to go away. Confront it, or it's only going to get bigger.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

Hmm. Coverting to Islam?
Not ever been approached by a muslim to attempt conversion.
Does that come with a designer front grill and spinnazz?
Nope. Not one muslim has ever tried to even explain why I should convert.
But...I have gotten some of the fear mighty Jesus God of mini paper books or you are a sinner and are going to hell when trick or treating on halloween, in mall parking lots, grocery stores, etc.
No disrepect to Jesus, just the manmade displayed idol version.


BTW, Hitler did  not order all Jews to be killed.  Max Schmeling (Jewish) lived a very long life, a very successful life, even after losing to Joe Louis (a black American) and shaming germany.

I like hummus and taboli and falafels and lavash and fava beans and olives.

Ron Paul spoke to supporters at a rally after the debate in Orlando last week and stated on stage, that more people die in bathtubs in America than people are killed by terrorists around the world.
Now that is a pretty interesting statistic.

[mvpel]

In the US, 332 people drowned in bathtubs in 2003, but the following year 355 Russian children and parents, and their would-be rescuers, were killed by Chechen Islamic terrorists, and another 730 children, parents, and rescuers were wounded.



Drawing some kind of equivalence between someone slipping in a bathtub and the Koran-motivated cold-blooded murder of innocents is distressingly flip.

One group of deaths cries out for improved safety measures in the bathroom.  The other cries out for JUSTICE.

[Dave Ridley]

i dont know if there is a muslim threat to our way of life
but there is certainly a federal threat

[error]

There are a few wackos out there who would like nothing better than to rule the world with an iron fist and will stop at nothing to achieve this goal. But the vast majority of people just want to live their lives in peace.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

In the US, 332 people drowned in bathtubs in 2003, but the following year 355 Russian children and parents, and their would-be rescuers, were killed by Chechen Islamic terrorists, and another 730 children, parents, and rescuers were wounded.



Drawing some kind of equivalence between someone slipping in a bathtub and the Koran-motivated cold-blooded murder of innocents is distressingly flip.

One group of deaths cries out for improved safety measures in the bathroom.  The other cries out for JUSTICE.

uh umm. Ron Paul did not say the terrorists were all koran-motivated cold-blooded murderers.
He said the word terrorists.  Is the definition for terrorists, muslims?
If someone thinks it is true muslims are a threat to our way of life, why are the rights of all those who are not muslims being taken away.... because the ones who claim to be muslim are in disguise as the rest who are not?

And...why do the vets returning from the war, stopping the terrorists from coming to get us not have full health benefits past the two year mark of return?
We better stop them terrorists because we better for nothin except to line a pocket of the few and all you get is a paper american made in china flag on a toothpick placed in the lasagna dish to look pretty neat. yum uh umm.