Group forming to sue NH over education funding.

[GT]

With all the talk of tax protest regarding education funding thought some of you may be interested in this. Although NHCafe.com has not specified it's actual agenda I'm guessing they are going to push for increased state funding for education in NH. I don't agree with the state funding education. It may be something to keep an eye on should they pursue a full blown legal action against the state.


For Release June 22, 2005:
The New Hampshire Communities for Adequate Funding of Education (NHcafe) has become one of the fastest growing grassroots movements ever in New Hampshire.  At this time we believe it would be appropriate to expand the board of this Not-For Profit Corporation to include other community leaders in the collaborative group.  The organization (NHcafe) was established to promote appropriate funding and revenue sources for schools in the State of New Hampshire.

Presently there are over 25 communities that have interest in the group with one dozen entities committing funds to date, for a challenge to the constitutionality of the legislation.  Each City, Town or School District with a financial commitment has been notified that NHcafe would appreciate one official from each town to act as representatives on the board.

Membership in the organization simply requires a New Hampshire citizen be interested in to promoting appropriate funding and revenue sources for schools in the State of New Hampshire.  To join enter a valid email address at www.NHcafe.org or write us at;

New Hampshire Communities for Adequate Funding of Education
Londonderry, NH 03053

[AlanM]

This could actually help us. People would come to realize that no matter what program was chosen, and no matter what the cost, someone will always want to sue the state. They will then be receptive to getting the state OUT of the education business entirely.

[GT]

Here is a real kick of a quote:

"I'm a Libertarian at heart," he said. "I'd like to see local control. But how do we provide for every child and maintain local control?"

This is from the leader of the NHCafe.com coalition suing the state of New Hampshire to pay for public education!

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050703/REPOSITORY/507030371/1031

[GT]

The argument from NHCafe is that the NH constitution requires that the state pay for an adequate education.

How do you repond to this??

[KBCraig]

The argument from NHCafe is that the NH constitution requires that the state pay for an adequate education.

How do you repond to this??

New Hampshire Constitution, bill of rights, Article 28: "No subsidy, charge, tax, impost, or duty, shall be established, fixed, laid, or levied, under any pretext whatsoever, without the consent of the people, or their representatives in the legislature, or authority derived from that body."

As I understand it, the statewide property tax is by order of the state Supreme Court, not by the consent of the people or their representatives.

All arguments for mandatory funding flow from Article 83, "ENCOURAGEMENT OF LITERATURE, TRADES, ETC."

Knowledge and learning, generally diffused through a community, being essential to the preservation of a free government; and spreading the opportunities and advantages of education through the various parts of the country, being highly conducive to promote this end; it shall be the duty of the legislators and magistrates, in all future periods of this government, to cherish the interest of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries and public schools, to encourage private and public institutions, rewards, and immunities for the promotion of agriculture, arts, sciences, commerce, trades, manufactures, and natural history of the country; to countenance and inculcate the principles of humanity and general benevolence, public and private charity, industry and economy, honesty and punctuality, sincerity, sobriety, and all social affections, and generous sentiments, among the people: Provided, nevertheless, that no money raised by taxation shall ever be granted or applied for the use of the schools of institutions of any religious sect or denomination.

(The remainder of the Article deals with regulating monopolies, which was an amendment added in 1903.)

To "encourage" is commendable, but it's very distinct from "to mandate, fund, and compel". I suspect the term "public schools" also throws people off track in this debate.  In 1783 New Hampshire it's safe to assume that "public school" had the same meaning as 18th Century England: an historic school which is open to public attendance, but which require tuition and fees. That same definition still applies today in England and Wales.

It's interesting that the Article requires the General Court to "cherish ( . . . ) all seminaries and public schools . . . ". Seminaries and "public schools" are given equal standing, but " . . . no money raised by taxation shall ever be granted or applied for the use of the schools of institutions of any religious sect or denomination."

I can find no requirement to fund any schooling, but rather to encourage and cherish literature and the arts. "Rewards and immunities" can be given to schools, both "public" and otherwise, so long as tax funds are not given to religious schools.

It seems the NH SC found such a requirement the way courts all too often do: "because we think that's how it should be!"

Kevin

[Kat Kanning]

Excellent answer, KB

[GT]

Good Answer. Can I post your response at other sites?

[lildog]

If you read all of Article 83, which in the prior Claremont (the first of two) case they used to claim that the state MUST provide fund for an adequate education of all students (not the exact wording of their ruling),  it is a very vague article and the wording sounds to me as if it says all education either public or private MUST be funded by the sate as long as it isn?t religious in nature.  From my reading of this article the ONLY way the state could meet this is a voucher system which parents had the choice to wave should they want to send their child to a religious school.

[AlanM]

"Knowledge and learning, generally diffused through a community, being essential to the preservation of a free government"


Is this why the schools are constantly being dumbed down? Public schools give only a bare minimum education BY DESIGN.

[lildog]

Public schools give only a bare minimum education BY DESIGN.

They SHOULD only give a bare minimum by design but that's not what happens in reality.  They push for more and more spending on things to help enhance the "quality" (based on their own view of quality).

This past year was my first year serving on the Merrimack Budget Committee and I was shocked by what we?re putting money into.  And sadly there aren?t enough on the bud com willing to be made out as the bad guys by fighting this out of control spending.

We?re pumping well over $6,000 into a swim program for less then 15 kids.  This is a brand new program just started this year? then in the same meeting the school officials turned around and claimed they just can?t afford to fully fund existing programs like band so they had to ask for MORE money in warrant articles.

Then there is the $50,000+ spent on field trips!  The argument for them is that they help enhance the education and all kids to see what they?ve learned about in a real world environment.  Great, then if a parent feels it?s a benefit then that parent should pay for it.  I pay for my kids to go to museums and other places I feel would make them well rounded so why does the school expect the tax payer to cover this expense that goes beyond the basic education requirements of public education?

[GT]

School funding is, in my opiniion, the biggest drain on the taxpayer. We here over and over "it's all for the children". That's nothing but a catch phrase to get more money. NHCafe is going to push for a huge increase in state spending. Local School Boards are going to look at this as FREE money and simply increase their spending.

Franklin just announced almost a 15% increase in the School budget. I think 13% of that was the new funds the state is giving them under HB616.

We need a complete reform of the educational system. Brining education back to the local level is the only way we are going to get control of anything. If the School Boards can constantly blame the State and Fed's it's not going to change.

[KBCraig]

Good Answer. Can I post your response at other sites?

Sure, just link to this thread.

Kevin

[Michael Fisher]

School funding is, in my opiniion, the biggest drain on the taxpayer.

Sorry, but that's not an opinion.  That's a fact.

[jgmaynard]

"Knowledge and learning, generally diffused through a community, being essential to the preservation of a free government; and spreading the opportunities and advantages of education through the various parts of the country, being highly conducive to promote this end; it shall be the duty of the legislators and magistrates, in all future periods of this government, to cherish the interest of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries and public schools, to encourage private and public institutions, rewards, and immunities for the promotion of agriculture, arts, sciences, commerce, trades, manufactures, and natural history of the country; to countenance and inculcate the principles of humanity and general benevolence, public and private charity, industry and economy, honesty and punctuality, sincerity, sobriety, and all social affections, and generous sentiments, among the people: Provided, nevertheless, that no money raised by taxation shall ever be granted or applied for the use of the schools of institutions of any religious sect or denomination."

So, if I read the bold parts in here, the state should be REWARDING me for writing my book on he history of science...... Hhhhhhhhm.....

Maybe anyone who can find a reason in here that they should receive money in here under the same "logic" as Claremont could get together and file a class action law suit, using Claremont as precedent.

I'm sure they'd find a way to wiggle out, but on the surface seems like they'd have to throw out one case or the other....

JM

[Michael Fisher]

...it shall be the duty of the legislators and magistrates, in all future periods of this government, to cherish the interest of literature and the sciences, and all seminaries and public schools, to encourage private and public institutions, rewards, and immunities for the promotion of agriculture, arts, sciences, commerce, trades, manufactures, and natural history of the country...

I run a computer repair business.  This is covered under "the cherishing of the promotion of commerce".  So I'll expect my $50,000 subsidy check to be in the mail on Monday!

Don't make me sue the state!