Group forming to sue NH over education funding.

[GT]

Lildog, You don't understand your not supposed to ask questions. We are all just supposed to happily pay our taxes....

Anyone that questions school funding is just plain ignorant according to NHCafe:
"right wingers and their like are ignorant of the court decisions. They simply do not believe in the three tier system of government that our forefathers set up" Richard Elliott posting on NHCafe.com

http://www.nhcafe.com/blog/?p=239

[CNHT]

Lildog, You don't understand your not supposed to ask questions. We are all just supposed to happily pay our taxes....

Anyone that questions school funding is just plain ignorant according to NHCafe:

"right wingers and their like are ignorant of the court decisions. They simply do not believe in the three tier system of government that our forefathers set up" Richard Elliott posting on NHCafe.com

http://www.nhcafe.com/blog/?p=239

Trouble is, courts should NOT be legislating! Our forefathers did not provide for education 'funding' in their plans for LIMITED GOVERNMENT. Anyone remotely familiar with this forum should be able to argue back to that person.
<grumble>
Right wingers my butt!  @#$%@#$%@#$%@$#@$%@$#%@#$%

<she goes back to packing>

[GT]

This is the type of response that you get when you do not agree with NHCafe.

"Your statements are evidence in support of that statement, Mr. Douglas.
Do you ever write anything with factual information or do you simply remark with your little whiney snipes at everyone else that are trying to promote factual evidence with the attempt to promote a solution to the problem.
If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Tell us what you would propose as a funding mechanism, tell us what you propose to be adequacy, tell us what you are in favor of, but for gods sake stop telling us what you are against constantly. Then I will take you seriously. Until then I think of you as a tiny little whining gnat with too much time on your hands.
Richard Elliott"

[AlanM]

GT,
They are so wrapped up in facts and numbers, they can't see the forest for the trees. They all agree that Joe/Jane Taxpayer must be forced to pay for the education of the kids down the block. They are merely arguing over the spoils.

[AlanM]

Here's a thought GT. Tell them the only "fair" funding mechanism is for each adult resident to pay $1 to a statewide Education Fund. The rest of the tab can be picked up by the parents of the children they brought into this world and are responsible for.

[GT]

I've already posted that education should be funded locally and I do beleive it should be the parents that pay. Most of the post that I ask questions go unanswered. They have 150,000 of tax payer money and they don't even hold open public meetings.

[lildog]

They are so wrapped up in facts and numbers, they can't see the forest for the trees. They all agree that Joe/Jane Taxpayer must be forced to pay for the education of the kids down the block. They are merely arguing over the spoils.

Facts and numbers are a GOOD thing Alan.  Here in Merrimack I WISH they were wrapped up in facts and numbers.

I?ve asked two simple questions? how much do we pay out to the state?  And how much do we get in return from the state?

You would think those are two simple questions and by showing that the town gets far more from the state then it pays out that would ?justify? their involvement in the lawsuit.  And since Merrimack is tied with Londonderry for putting the most into this lawsuit you would think our school officials could easily prove the lawsuit is worthwhile.  I haven?t gotten an answer yet.

In fact all I get is one other member of the budget committee arguing that I?m asking the wrong questions, not considering all the facts, and that we aren?t a donor town so that proves we get more then we pay.  Ok great, so how much do we get from the state?  What are we losing as a town?  You would think if your going to sue the state you could point out what your losing as a town, right???

And here?s why I say facts and numbers are a good thing? as I compute based on what I can find I see Merrimack saves 2.6 million due to lower state taxes.  I can only find a single quote by a selectman support the lawsuit pointing out we must sue since we?re losing 1.24 million per year? FACTS support lowering state taxes for Merrimack as we pay far more then we get.

Oh which brings me to the argument made this weekend? our local taxes increased 5 million this year? well yeah, we can?t control our own spending? I tried to cut the school budget and I was called a monster for recommending cuts!  You can?t expect the state to make up for local boards with spending problems!!!  DUH!

I invite you all to look at the school topic entitled ?are our selectmen doing the right thing? on the Merrimack Forum.  If I?m asking the wrong questions or if I?m off base please correct me and send me straight.

[AlanM]

I?ve asked two simple questions? how much do we pay out to the state?  And how much do we get in return from the state?

The first questions begs a second question: Why? The second question begs the question: Why should we?
In my mind it comes down to: Why should I, or anybody else, pay money to the state for education. And: Why would anyone expect to GET money from the state for any reason?

[mvpel]

Well, considering it's hard enough for the tax-and-spenders to answer the simple question of "how much," the more difficult question of "why" has to wait for later.

Rick, I wonder if we could pass a warrant article calling for an across-the-board 10% cut in the entire town and school budget.

[AlanM]

Well, considering it's hard enough for the tax-and-spenders to answer the simple question of "how much," the more difficult question of "why" has to wait for later.

Rick, I wonder if we could pass a warrant article calling for an across-the-board 10% cut in the entire town and school budget.

I think we should ask the "Why" question regularly. To many people are unaware of any options. They swallow the government knows best line out of ignorance of other options. The whole discussion takes on a different slant when it is first asked "Why?"

[AlanM]

Better yet: Why compulsory schooling? Public schooling as it exists in its Prussian State, is the polar opposite of education. Public schools were designed around the Prussian model, which teaches subservience. Education is liberating.

[lildog]

I thought I posted a response already but I must have hit preview or something and then left the page.

Anyway? to answer the question why one doesn?t have to look far for an answer?

http://heartland.org/archives/education/feb98/court.htm

First two paragraphs explain that the court views our state constitution as requiring the state to provide "a constitutionally adequate public education".

So until the constitution is changed or the ruling is overturned the question should be instead HOW should the state assure fair funding.  Now my reading of the article this view is based on leads me to believe ALL non religious education should be funded by the state (up to a point) so the only way to meet the states constitutional requirement would be a voucher system which you can opt out of if you choose a religious school for your child.

I think the above would also increase the state of education as by allowing parents to use the money where they wish it would force public schools to compete with private schools.  The school with the best value for the cost would get the money.  The only problem with this is the public schools would just take any additional money they wanted by force through local taxes.  But that?s a different problem then the state funding one.

And Mike, as for your suggestion of the 10% cut? I doubt it would fly.  The argument made would be that the budget has been scrutinized over by the school board or board of selectmen and then the budget committee so there is nothing left that can be cut.  Now this of course is a lie but that?s what?s been argued in the past.  The truth is there is nothing more the boards can AGREE on to cut.

The other part of the problem is no one comes to the budget meetings.  While I?ve had people stop me on the street, email, and call me asking to cut the budget no one comes to the meetings so the others on the committee argue that if people were concerned they would show up and make recommendations.  Last year the only ones who showed up were people from parks and recs asking for $75,000 to be put back in the budget (it was).

And the committee doesn?t really take into account the fact that town employees asking for money have something to gain by showing up at these meetings? instead the committee views ANYONE who speaks up as the voice of the people.

What I?d recommend and I?d LOVE to see done is to see a huge group of Merrimack residents come down to the budget meetings and demand that the budget presented is LOWER then the year before.

[AlanM]

 Here is a quote from Jefferson in a letter to Adams dated 9-11-1804:

"You seemed to think that it devolved on the judges to decide on the validity of the sedition law. But nothing in the Constitution has given them a right to decide for the Executive, more than the Executive to decide for them. Both magistrates are equally independant in the sphere of action assigned to them. The judges, believing the law unconstituional, had a right to pass a sentence of fine and imprisonment; because the power was placed in their hands by the Constitution. But the Executive, believing the law to be unconstitutional, were bound to remit the execution of it; because that power had been confided to them by the Constitution."

TJ didn't think the courts had the absolute say.

[CNHT]

The Merrimack Forum that lildog speaks about and links to other town forums are all on this page:

http://www.cnht.org/links.php

[lildog]

My head is ready to explode from trying to understand how the state education funding system works.  But never the less I think I finally have it (at least as it was explained by school board officials so take it for what it?s worth)?

RSA 73:6 dictates a tax amount towns must collect in the name of education.  The state sets the amount of this tax but towns collect it.

Then towns either get a check from the state on top of what they?ve already collected in the state?s name or they send the state a check of a percentage of what they collected in the state?s name.

I?m told Merrimack gets a check on top of what they collect in local taxes.

So after finally understanding all the math behind this and the fact you have dollar amounts coming from multiple places (shell game) Merrimack actually was coming out ahead based on the old system? we?d get more money then we put into the system since we received the check on top of what we collected locally in the state?s name.

Now based on what I?ve read on NHCafe?s site it sounds like RSA 73:6 is going away so there will be nothing collected in the state?s name locally from any towns? yet from somewhere (and I?ve yet to find out where) the state will still be pulling money to be able to cut checks to different towns in the name of funding their education systems.  The gripe is that towns like Merrimack who were getting 8 to 10 million on top of what they collected locally may only get 6 million.  And when you consider that they?ve allowed their education budget to grow to 55+ million and it keeps going up by a million or two per year you can see why local officials are having a fit? those of us living in Merrimack will either have to pay for the 900 pound gorilla we?ve created or cut spending if we can?t find a way to continue getting the state to pay for at least 20% of it as they have been.

Now I?m just curious, can those of you in other towns look up what your school budget is and the population of your towns.  Merrimack has around 27,000 people so that?s a cost of over 2000 per person.  Looking at it a different way we have 9,000 homes so that?s over $6100 per house.