Politics is an immoral dead-end

[shyfrog]

I'm fairly certain Russell isn't a fed.
The proof speaks for itself:

[jaqeboy]

Vitruvian, something I've been wanting to comment on, and it becomes more obvious as this thread goes on, is your remark:

Before we can change the world we must change ourselves.

and this by Faber:

Ghandi gets quoted a lot around here, so let me have a shot . . . "BE the change you want to see in the world."

Many have said these kind of things, and heeding them are key to being influential, I think. I remember a couple of decades past how myself and other Randroids would argue with people and berate them, but, of course, that never worked at all, except to alienate people and isolate ourselves from society.

You are to be commended on your gentle manner and clear, well-spoken logic and your patience and calm under withering attack.

One of the things that was an enhancing concept to my understanding is the pop psychology concept of "boundaries" that go beyond just the physical realm, ie, respect also for the sexual, emotional and spiritual boundaries of others. I know Pia Mellody wrote a good bit on this, and I'm sure Faber knows of others.

So, it seems many are stuck in libertarian kindergarten, where they only respect physical boundaries, such as your person or your property lines, but have never considered your emotional or spiritual boundaries to be anything other than open season. It's, of course, abuse to transgress in those ways, as you acknowledged when you finally had to press "ignore" in self-defense. It was appropriate and you were tolerant to a fault to take as long as you did to do that.

Here's to change and improvement to become more respectful, moral and effective! 

[Russell Kanning]

I'm fairly certain Russell isn't a fed.
The proof speaks for itself:

first I thought that was a picture of another guy with a funny hat (maybe TimCondon) ... then when I realized it was me ... I was trying to figure out why I was wearing one of Caleb's shirts ... then I realized .... I had been had by one of the masters of this forum.

I do get cravings for donuts ... and I love the jingle of handcuffs.

I owe a drink to the first person I see at Burning Porcupine with a shirt that says "I'm the Fed" or something like that.

[Russell Kanning]

Before we can change the world we must change ourselves.

Ghandi gets quoted a lot around here, so let me have a shot . . . "BE the change you want to see in the world."

Many have said these kind of things, and heeding them are key to being influential, I think. I remember a couple of decades past how myself and other Randroids would argue with people and berate them, but, of course, that never worked at all, except to alienate people and isolate ourselves from society.

If it didn't work for you ... I am doomed, since I can't communicate as well.

So, it seems many are stuck in libertarian kindergarten, where they only respect physical boundaries, such as your person or your property lines, but have never considered your emotional or spiritual boundaries to be anything other than open season.

That is a good explanation for why some people back down when I see them in person.

[Russell Kanning]

I know Pia Mellody wrote a good bit on this, and I'm sure Faber knows of others.

Hey wait a minute! You know Faber?
Faber ... do I know you in the real world?

[anthonybpugh]

Isn't the idea that voting is violence is just another version of the doctrine of Collective Responsibility.  That through the act of voting I have involved myself in the system and am now responsible for all the evil that is done?  It seems kind of strange that a group of people who would denounce some types of collectivist doctrines would cling to another. 

[error]

How does expressing an opinion that this guy would be better than this other guy or that evil bitch make me morally responsible for any of their actions?

[Insurgent]

I just sat down and read this entire thread, from beginning to end. What a read! It's amazing that a thread this long has stayed on topic without diverting in to many tangents.

[shyfrog]

The biological subfamily Bovinae (or bovines) includes a diverse group of about 24 species of medium-sized to large ungulates, including domestic cattle, Bison, the Water Buffalo, the Yak, and the four-horned and spiral-horned antelopes. The evolutionary relationship between the members of the group is obscure, and their classification into loose tribes rather than formal sub-groups reflects this uncertainty. General characteristics include a cloven hoof and usually at least one of the sexes of a species having a true horn.

oh...oops

[J’raxis 270145]

I just sat down and read this entire thread, from beginning to end. What a read! It's amazing that a thread this long has stayed on topic without diverting in to many tangents.

Is that a good thing? It's twenty-eight pages long, and no one's opinion was really changed—Vitruvian still doesn't consider political action valid, and no political activists have come around to his point of view, either.

[jaqeboy]

I know Pia Mellody wrote a good bit on this, and I'm sure Faber knows of others.

Hey wait a minute! You know Faber?
Faber ... do I know you in the real world?

Naw, I don't know him, but he sounds interesting. He did say he's a psychotherapist, so I figured he'd know the concept and the people that write and lecture on it.

[jaqeboy]

I just sat down and read this entire thread, from beginning to end. What a read! It's amazing that a thread this long has stayed on topic without diverting in to many tangents.

Is that a good thing? It's twenty-eight pages long, and no one's opinion was really changed—Vitruvian still doesn't consider political action valid, and no political activists have come around to his point of view, either.

Yeah, which is why there are 29 other threads for them to go to -- hint, hint. We got some work to do over here on our one thread and you're distractin' us.

[Insurgent]

It's twenty-eight pages long, and no one's opinion was really changed

Which is why libertarian debates should be seen as what they are: entertainment.

They can be more than just entertainment, although entertaining they can be!  A lot depends on how staunch we are in our beliefs or whether we're willing to consider other ways of looking at the world. Speaking from personal experience, I think differently than I did when I was younger, and I continue to learn and adjust my ways of thinking as experience teaches me.

Therefore, it's possible that some people may read this thread, and other threads, and help to clarify what they believe or even change their mind completely.

[CNHT]

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I agree...

Beware, when you exit the system, that you do not then do nothing further to advance the cause of liberty.

Did you mean, that you do  not then do _anything_ further to advance the cause of liberty? I wasn't clear on the double negative.

[Dreepa]

They can be more than just entertainment, although entertaining they can be!  A lot depends on how staunch we are in our beliefs or whether we're willing to consider other ways of looking at the world. Speaking from personal experience, I think differently than I did when I was younger, and I continue to learn and adjust my ways of thinking as experience teaches me.

Therefore, it's possible that some people may read this thread, and other threads, and help to clarify what they believe or even change their mind completely.

I 100% think that I have changed much of what I thought since I moved to NH.
When I moved I was probably a 'conservative' with libertarian leanings.  Now I would say  I am a libertarian with some conservative treats and become more of an ANCAP every day.
I am still Green though.