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Author Topic: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH  (Read 6607 times)

PowerPenguin

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2008, 08:33 PM NHFT »

Absolutely agreed, Dale.  I have no interest in appeasing statists.

I'm promoting Keene in hopes that it will become the "radical" hub and drive the statists here back to Massachusetts, Vermont, and New York.

Sounds good to me, Ian. However, this is one of the many reasons why I myself will not be moving there, but rather to the exact opposite side of the state, somewhere in or near Portsmouth. I came from the moderate left originally, and find myself with other such people the majority of the time. That being said, my strategy is to gain the friendship and trust of people as just a person, and then gradually bring some things out of the closet over time, as it were. On the open carry issue, I'd probably start with concealed carry, and then bust it out in the open after people got to know me for a few weeks or months. At that point, people would not see firearms as a scary thing, but as a good, or at the very least neutral thing that people should be allowed to have.

At the very least, we need to understand the enemy, though perhaps not agree with him. I like to emphasize killing bad attitudes with kindness. People are usually more receptive to positive, rather than negative reinforcement, and there's absolutely no reason to seem like the enemy if there isn't some kind of life and death reason.

In a similar vein, I would like to advocate and practice the agorist value of supporting the (victimless) black market whenever possible, both as a consumer and as a producer. Just like with foreign relations, we activists need to bring others around to our way of thinking by providing valuable goods and services. When people trade, peace ensues, as does understanding. If statists are economically dependent on, and materially benefited by freedom oriented people, they'll be more likely to join our side.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2008, 08:59 PM NHFT »

You would rather move to Portsmouth by yourself than know that Ian and other radicals live in Keene? If you are looking for leftists ... Keene might have a higher percentage than Portsmouth. The only reasons I can see to move there would be for a larger city or the ocean. :)

You do realize there are FSP members in Keene who are far from radical, don't you?
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David

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2008, 10:08 PM NHFT »

It makes the statists rather uncomfortable when you call them thieves and thugs, then politely ask them to quit. 
Slavery was abolished in most places due to the loud thundering of the abolitionists calling it a moral evil, a stain, etc. 
I like your thinking Dale. 
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dalebert

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2008, 11:22 PM NHFT »

The only reasons I can see to move there would be for a larger city or the ocean. :)

He also needs a means to commute to Boston for a while for his gf if I remember correctly.
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Dave Ridley

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2008, 11:52 PM NHFT »

u can start by referring to them as authoritarians rather than statists

i think it just has a better ring to it
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2008, 11:56 PM NHFT »

+1  :icon_pirat:
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srqrebel

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2008, 12:08 PM NHFT »

We do need people on board with us, and coming across as "rude" or "scary" only accomplishes the opposite.

Those are words other people have used and I'm simply responding. Don't put words in my mouth...

Sorry, Dale, that was not my intent.  I know you were not advocating that, and did not mean to imply that you were.  I should have worded it better.

I completely agree with you that some of the most effective activism is inherently controversial.  This is a good thing, and if it results in toes getting stepped on, so be it.  It is a waste of time to seek the support of hardcore statists authoritarians (nod to DR).  Of course, that does not mean one has to actually be rude or scary :)

Unfortunately, browbeating is a common tactic of "libertarian" types.  Some folks could interpret your original post as promoting such tactics.  PowerPenguin appeared to be warning against this, and I was simply agreeing with him on that.

Notice that in my previous post I cut out the part where he says, "I think you're wrong".  I did so because I actually do agree with you, while also agreeing with PowerPenguin's warning on the dangers of being confrontational and rude.

Sorry I wasn't clear on that :hug45:



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srqrebel

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2008, 12:35 PM NHFT »

It makes the statists rather uncomfortable when you call them thieves and thugs, then politely ask them to quit. 
Slavery was abolished in most places due to the loud thundering of the abolitionists calling it a moral evil, a stain, etc. 
I like your thinking Dale. 

Exposing evil actions and policies for what they are, is indeed vital to turning the tide of public opinion.

Calling individuals evil or immoral puts those individuals on the defensive, and just causes them to dig in their heels.  If the purpose is to expose the harmful legacy of such individuals for the benefit of the public, fine.  But if the objective is to encourage those individuals to change themselves, I fail to see how a confrontational approach can accomplish that.

How does it make you feel when someone calls you evil or immoral, for doing what seems right to you?
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Jim Johnson

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2008, 06:48 PM NHFT »


Calling individuals evil or immoral puts those individuals on the defensive, and just causes them to dig in their heels.  If the purpose is to expose the harmful legacy of such individuals for the benefit of the public, fine.  But if the objective is to encourage those individuals to change themselves, I fail to see how a confrontational approach can accomplish that.

How does it make you feel when someone calls you evil or immoral, for doing what seems right to you?

Initially they dig in their heals.  Over time something like that works on a persons conscience, (I am assuming that any particular Statist has a conscience.)

They will ask themself and others, 'What makes me evil?'   The questioner is asking for reinforcement of his or her beliefs.  The answer that person receives should be your explanation of why you believe they are evil.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2008, 07:05 PM NHFT »

change comes with each individual
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srqrebel

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2008, 02:25 PM NHFT »

Initially they dig in their heals.  Over time something like that works on a persons conscience, (I am assuming that any particular Statist has a conscience.)

They will ask themself and others, 'What makes me evil?'   The questioner is asking for reinforcement of his or her beliefs.  The answer that person receives should be your explanation of why you believe they are evil.

Speaking out articulately and firmly against evil actions and policies leaves it up to the individual to ask himself, "How do I measure up?", and allows the incrimination to come from within.

IME, personal attacks do not ever have that effect, not even in the long run.  They just compel the individual to endlessly rationalize justifications for their actions, and close their mind to the (unfriendly) message.

For instance, there is a striking difference between saying, "Enforcing victimless crime laws is inherently wrong, regardless of one's job description", vs. "You, Mr. Officer, are a bad person for enforcing victimless crime laws. You should quit your job".

Oh wait, let me rephrase that:

You, Jim, are stupid for not readily seeing the difference.  Go play in the street.
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srqrebel

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2008, 02:28 PM NHFT »

...just kidding, of course! ;)

As a matter of fact, I have a great deal of respect for you, Jim, and said that only to illustrate my point :)
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Jim Johnson

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2008, 02:50 PM NHFT »


Oh wait, let me rephrase that:

You, Jim, are stupid for not readily seeing the difference.  Go play in the street.

Thank you for pointing that out...publicly.   ::)
But it is my job...and as it is my job I will continue to do so as a member of a productive society.

I don't see your point. 
"Enforcing victimless crime laws is inherently wrong, regardless of one's job description", vs. "You, Mr. Officer, are a bad person for enforcing victimless crime laws. You should quit your job", should read as, "Enforcing victimless crime laws is inherently wrong, regardless of one's job description. Therefore, You, Mr. Officer, are a bad person for enforcing victimless crime laws. You should quit your job".
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srqrebel

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2008, 02:49 PM NHFT »

Thank you for pointing that out...publicly.   ::)

LOL, I was not pointing out any such thing!  Nobody sees perfectly eye to eye, that does not automatically indicate stupidity ;D

It was only meant to demonstrate the automatic internal response to an attack on one's person.  If it was in bad taste, even though it was not meant seriously, I do apologize.

I don't see your point. 
"Enforcing victimless crime laws is inherently wrong, regardless of one's job description", vs. "You, Mr. Officer, are a bad person for enforcing victimless crime laws. You should quit your job", should read as, "Enforcing victimless crime laws is inherently wrong, regardless of one's job description. Therefore, You, Mr. Officer, are a bad person for enforcing victimless crime laws. You should quit your job".

Before I proceed, let me point out that I am only having this conversation with you because I know you to be quite intelligent, and value your input.  Otherwise, I would just ignore what you have to say :)

The natural, spontaneous response to any perceived attack on one's self, including one's personal honor, is self-defense.  This is true even for individuals who do not understand or respect the equal sovereignty of others, such as cops.  Perhaps an extremely mature individual would consciously override this impulse, and give it some rational thought -- but my experience is that most people are quite reactionary, especially government stooges.

When you condemn a person, he may think "What an asshole" or "What a moron", but never "Gee, maybe he's right -- I am a bad person.  I should change myself".

When you condemn an action, you avoid triggering the self-defense impulse, allowing rational thought to occur.  This allows the conviction to develop 'safely' from within -- something like this: "That is a good point.  I've never thought of it that way.  Come to think of it, my own actions do not measure up to this standard; perhaps I should change the way I act".
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2008, 05:11 AM NHFT »

just be advised.....

If you cause any bad publicity, you will get blamed for everything that has ever gone wrong with the FSP...e.g. zack bass

Bad publicity is Good!  Block-Busting works extremely well.  Those who yearn to oppress their neighbors have lots of places to move to.  All we have to do is disgust them.

"If it ain't broke, break it."

From what I’ve read on this and the other forums, your “strategy” is what gave the FTP such a bad name and got you kicked out of the FSP.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 05:45 AM NHFT by J’raxis 270145 »
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