Diffusing anger - city council massacre

[Michael Fisher]

Gunman Kills 5 People at City Council Meeting
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/us/08missouri.html?hp

...

The authorities did not identify the gunman, but The Post-Dispatch reporter and other witnesses identified him as Charles Lee Thornton, an independent contractor known as Cookie. Mr. Thornton was said to have often come to council meetings and to have had repeated disagreements with Kirkwood officials.

...

In late January, a federal judge tossed out at a lawsuit Mr. Thornton had filed against Kirkwood and its officials. He contended that they had violated his free speech rights by prohibiting him from speaking out at meetings.

In an interview with a local television station, Mr. Thornton's mother said that Kirkwood officials had kept after her son, "giving him tickets for everything they could."

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Watch the news. Look at those who died today. They died because people like us were not there to help this man. He was allegedly victimized by the government.

Our efforts to defuse the anger of people such as Charles Lee Thornton have been consistently successful. Our prevention of such explosive violence has been a major boon to liberty in New Hampshire and Connecticut.

The NH Underground deserves recognition for its accomplishments in this respect. We always do our best to protect victims of government and help them to convert their anger into positive action. How much violence has been prevented because of our efforts? How much liberty has been protected as a result? It is immeasurable.

[les nessman]

   I covered this on my blog today.   When people feel they are persecuted and forced into a corner,
they can become violent because they feel the need to defend themselves.   No one has made any mention
if the city made any attempt to follow up on his complaint highlighted in red.  All that was necessary was
to tell the man that they would hear his complaint after the meeting.  Instead, I guess they thought
they could just shirk the guys concerns and he would quietly go away. 

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/analysis.aspx?id=19647

Federal court rejects council critic's First Amendment claims

By David L. Hudson Jr.
First Amendment scholar
02.07.08

A federal judge in Missouri has rejected the First Amendment claims of a man removed from Kirkwood City Council meetings for "repetitive, personal, virulent attacks" against council members.

Charles Lee Thornton had sued the city of Kirkwood after he was arrested twice (and later convicted) for disorderly conduct at two council meetings in 2006.

In May 2006, Thornton had the opportunity to speak during the public-comment portion of a council meeting that addressed the expansion of two businesses — a funeral home and a senior living facility. During the time reserved to discuss the funeral home, Thornton rose to speak about what he alleged was personal harassment of him by city officials, not the expansion of the business. He displayed a large poster with a picture of a donkey and made intemperate remarks about the mayor. Thornton then warned the funeral home owner that the city had a "plantation-mentality" and "jackass-like qualities."

Thornton engaged in similar conduct after the presentation about the senior living center. He said the mayor was "sitting there looking stupid." The mayor eventually ordered Thornton to leave the podium and called the police. When the police came to the podium, Thornton sat on the floor and refused to leave. He was arrested and later convicted of disorderly conduct. He has appealed his conviction to a state appeals court.

Similar events occurred at a June 2006 City Council meeting. During the public-comment portion, Thornton was allowed to speak, at which point he began: "Jackass, jackass, jackass ... ." Eventually the mayor asked the police to remove Thornton, who again sat on the floor. Once again he was arrested and convicted of disorderly conduct.

Thornton later filed a federal lawsuit, contending that his First Amendment rights had been violated. U.S. District Judge Catherine D. Perry disagreed in her Jan. 28, 2008, opinion in Thornton v. City of Kirkwood. She applied a forum analysis, determining that the public comment portion of the meetings constituted a limited designated public forum that the city could reserve for certain groups and topics of discussion. She did not find the public-comment period to be a traditional public forum in which government restrictions on speech must pass strict scrutiny — the highest form of judicial review.

She noted that there was substantial confusion in the lower courts over the terms "limited public forum" and "designated public forum." Perry ruled that a limited designated public forum is a subclass of a designated public forum in which restrictions on speech must be reasonable and viewpoint-neutral.

"As the meeting was a limited designated public forum, Kirkwood had the right to restrict the topic of discussion to the expansion of two businesses," Perry wrote. Rather than addressing germane subject matter, "Thornton engaged in personal attacks against the mayor, Kirkwood, and the city council.

"Any restrictions on Thornton's speech were reasonable, viewpoint neutral, and served important governmental interests," Perry wrote. "Because Thornton does not have a First Amendment right to engage in irrelevant debate and to voice repetitive, personal, virulent attacks against Kirkwood and its city officials during the comment portion of a city council public hearing, his claim fails as a matter of law."

    This looks to be a recurring theme lately:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329289,00.html

Man blamed massacre plans on council decision

Dianna M. Náñez and Erin Kozak
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 7, 2008 01:50 PM
Tempe City Councilwoman Barb Carter said she was shocked to hear that a Tempe man reportedly blames a council decision for pushing him to plot a "bloody" revenge on crowds of people at the Super Bowl.

"Why would he take it out on innocent people?" Carter said.

Kurt Havelock surrendered to police on Super Bowl Sunday after allegedly plotting to shoot and kill people at the big game. Havelock told police that he was upset that the Tempe City Council recommended he not be granted a liquor license in October, according to federal court documents.

   


Havelock had recently purchased an AR-15 assault rifle from the Scottsdale Gun Club, and mailed to media outlets eight copies of a manifesto.

In the manifesto, he said the original site of the planned massacre was Phoenix's Desert Ridge Marketplace, which abuts Scottsdale, but that "scum and "villainy" are in Scottsdale and so instead he "will shed the blood of the innocent."

In October, Havelock went before the City Council to seek support for a liquor license. But the council recommended denial after an Internet blog by Havelock stated the restaurant would be named "Drunkenstein's" and not "The Haunted Castle," as the application stated.

"How many dollars will you lose? And all because you took my right . . . to own a business from me," the manifesto stated.

Carter said she was the lone vote to recommend approval of Havelock's liquor permit.

"He appeared to be a perfectly normal 20 to 30 something guy," she said. "On blogs people can say anything. I didn't take it seriously. I figured the guy was just making fun . . . give him his liquor license. I stood alone. Evidently, it sent the guy over the edge."

Havelock stated in his letter that he could not "outvote, outspend, outtax, or outincarcerate my enemies. But for a brief moment I can outgun them."

The council had little lose by voting for Havelock's permit, Carter said, because the council only makes recommendations for permits to the State Liquor Board. It's the board that actually decides who gets a license.

"We would've never issued him a sign permit for that name anyway," she said.

Carter said she had heard reports that Havelock made written threats against council staff. She said it was scary for her to think that at anytime over the past months Havelock could have rushed City Council chambers or staff offices with weapons.

The council has received threats in the past, she said, and has been advised that the dais the council sits behind is bulletproof. The reality, she said, is that there is little time to react in such emergencies.

"I'm not faster than a bullet," she said.

Federal authorities are detaining Havelock, who is in his mid-30s. He is suspected of mailing threatening communications and is being detained pending trial.

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman said in response to Havelock's case, "My understanding is there is an ongoing federal investigation and I'm not at liberty to comment any further."

[kola]

This is what the copgoons and their pawns are creating.

The common folk are getting frustrated at the overwhelming political corruption and nazi tactics.

action reaction.

push leads to shove.

when options are eliminated, blood flows.

this has happened throughout history.

Kola

[Lloyd Danforth]

Here in Grafton where we are trying to dissolve the town's Planning Board, one of the points that has been posited is that removal of a board that screws around with property rights will make it safer for the Town employees who, often, become the victims of victims who have had enough.

[Russell Kanning]

very true
There does seem to be a lot of built up anger when the government pretends to represent people ... then shuts them out.
I hope we can persuade some people that killing others is not a great solution.

[FTL_Ian]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4261556

[kola]

shots heard round the world.

war is never pretty.

Kola

[slim]

It is sad that a government that is supposed to be for and by the people pushes a person so far that they commit violence on another human but this is a example that you can only push people so far before the final nerve is broken and people die.

[les nessman]

   

This is a quote from the St Louis Post Dispatch:

The city had ticketed Thornton's demolition and asphalt business, Cookco Construction, for parking his commercial vehicles in the neighborhood, said Ron Hodges, a friend who lives in the community. The tickets were "eating at him," Hodges said.

 

   
   

[Kat Kanning]

Merged the two topics on this subject.

[J’raxis 270145]

shots heard round the world.

war is never pretty.

Certainly not the first shot, just another in a long line of people being pushed beyond their lines in the sand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Drega
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer

You should've been at the HB1543 hearing last Tuesday to hear some of the crap people put up with from their local governments without having yet gone postal.

[J’raxis 270145]

This is a quote from the St Louis Post Dispatch:

The city had ticketed Thornton's demolition and asphalt business, Cookco Construction, for parking his commercial vehicles in the neighborhood, said Ron Hodges, a friend who lives in the community. The tickets were "eating at him," Hodges said.

We have these same laws in Manchester. They'll ticket people parking in residential areas for having commercial stenciling on their cars even if it's also used as a personal vehicle. This definition of "commercial vehicle" is very different than the one that the State DMV uses (specifically vehicles over 13 tons). To add to this idiocy, parking a commercial vehicle in a residential driveway is a nice way to earn a visit from the zoning bureaucrats.


A lot of residents have complained to the aldermen about all this, and they were debating how to fix this at the traffic committee meetings a couple months ago. Perhaps this incident will help move along the process.