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"Let them march all they want, as long as they pay their taxes."  --Alexander Haig

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Author Topic: Paul calling for march on Washington  (Read 6113 times)

kola

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2008, 06:39 PM NHFT »

Caleb, it not a difficult answer nor do I want to "get inside your head", bro.

ie

do you want to be able to do things and not suffer any penalties/ negative consequences? (btw I am just generalizing here so please don't say you want to be able to murder someone and get away with it) mm kay?   ;)

do you want to be free to travel without papers?

do want to be free and avoid paying taxes?

do want to able to build a house without a permit?

do you want to be able to buy a weapon without having it registered?

these IMO are just examples of "freedom".

When seaching and striving for freedom what is it that you want to avoid and what is it that you want to achieve?


Kola

 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 06:43 PM NHFT by kola »
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2008, 07:32 PM NHFT »

do you want to be able to do things and not suffer any penalties/ negative consequences? (btw I am just generalizing here so please don't say you want to be able to murder someone and get away with it) mm kay?   ;)

do you want to be free to travel without papers?

do want to be free and avoid paying taxes?

do want to able to build a house without a permit?

do you want to be able to buy a weapon without having it registered?

My definition of freedom is basically, within the bounds of the non-aggression principle, Do as thou wilt. All of your examples are simply specific cases thereof.

Caleb:—
You’ve probably heard DILIGE ET QVOD VIS FAC before, no? Does that work as a definition of freedom for you?
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kola

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2008, 08:05 PM NHFT »

they are just examples.... in hopes that caleb can define what he is in search of.
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Caleb

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2008, 08:10 PM NHFT »

Caleb:—
You’ve probably heard DILIGE ET QVOD VIS FAC before, no? Does that work as a definition of freedom for you?

A little St. Augustine for me, eh?  ;)  Yes, it mostly does work, in fact. Augustine, by the way, was a Platonist.

I think it goes beyond that, though. I've been paying attention a lot lately to the *way* that I think, which I never paid much attention to before. And I've noticed that my mind will play a series of images which coalesce into a single nameless thought. This happens quickly so that I'm almost not aware of it, and sometimes the pictures merge. With freedom, I see a large shadow looming ... a helmetless boy conqueror wielding a sword and standing with his foot on his helmet, his long hair flowing in victory. I see a bird flying so high it can see everything below. There may be more. All this sort of coalesces into a single image: Freedom is beyond any single thing that you can do. It transcends that. It's about the source: fear. And that's all tied into love, yes, because love is fear's antidote. FDR said we had nothing to fear but fear itself. I think that's true because we can only be controlled through fear. So freedom is about freedom from fear. And lots of love.

For some reason, I also keep playing Shakespeare's line: This above all, to thine own self be true and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.  I'm not sure what that has to do with freedom, but it feels like freedom to me, and my mind associates these two.

I'm finding that these pictorial associations are very valuable in understanding truths that remain beyond my rational thought process.
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kola

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2008, 08:16 PM NHFT »

FDR sold us down the river like most other amerikan presidents.


Caleb, can't you answer my questions? or do you choose to avoid them?

Kola
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Caleb

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2008, 08:20 PM NHFT »

I gave you the best answer I could give you. If you don't like it, that's not my problem. You asked what I wanted to be free of. I said "fear". That's the best definition I can give you. Is it complete? Hell no. But how the hell am I supposed to have the answers to everything?  ;) I've already told you that I don't think precise communication is possible. you'll have to cope with that reality.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2008, 11:46 PM NHFT »

...
You can bet I am, and will be, taking resolute, strategic action to make that happen.  My aim is to make it attractive for others to follow suit.

Fuck yeah; awesome post!
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2008, 11:47 PM NHFT »

srqrebel, I was pretty pissed about your Sununu protest at Liberty Forum, and haven't spent much time at this forum since, for that and other reasons.  But I just read through this thread, looking for more info on the potential march on Washington, and have to admit that your manifesto(?) above is pretty thought-provoking.  I also have been checking out Stefan Molyneux's writings recently, and while I whole-heartedly agree with some of it, I have a really hard time wrapping my mind around other parts of it.  If you can point me in the direction of more instructional material on these sorts of ideas, perhaps in time you can chalk me up as a convert.  :o

http://book.FreeKeene.com
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Caleb

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2008, 02:24 AM NHFT »

Quote
Yeah, we who are trying to dismantle the system from within, and not be corrupted in the process—we’re Frodo.

No. You are Boromir. Or possibly Denethor. Frodo *never* wielded the ring. He did put it on (on one occasion accidentally) which I think was actually a literary flaw because it confuses the analogy. But he always understood intuitively that the ring could not be destroyed by wielding it.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2008, 07:06 AM NHFT »

for the record .... I think that if anyone wants to join the Ron Paul march on Washington ... they will be promoting more freedom.

Marching on washington might not be striking the root, but I am not going to get in anyone's way.

Have fun storming the castle ... make those rotten politicians nervous. :)
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Friday

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2008, 08:51 AM NHFT »

What do you like about Sununu, Sandy?
Never said I do like Sununu, Caleb.  However, I have a real problem with people who don't lift a finger to help a dozen of their friends who put in months of effort planning something, but then both ride on the coattails of those people's efforts while simultaneously bitching about them.
Quote
Because I have to admit that the willingness of so-called "freedom lovers" to hop in bed and whore themselves with Sununu was a key factor in making me realize that most of those in the FSP just really, truly, aren't on MY side.
You're right; I'm not on your side... of the country.  :P
Quote
They are on the side of the bad guys.
Let's be bad guys.  >:D  I look better in black, anyway.

Quote
And why do you say you support torture?
It's called sarcasm, Sunshine Soldierboy.  ::)

Kat and Ian, thanks for the links; I'll check them out.

We now return you to your non-political, outside-the-system, Friday-free programming.  :D
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Caleb

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #71 on: February 17, 2008, 12:48 PM NHFT »

Never said I do like Sununu, Caleb.  However, I have a real problem with people who don't lift a finger to help a dozen of their friends who put in months of effort planning something, but then both ride on the coattails of those people's efforts while simultaneously bitching about them.

Sandy, I would take it as a compliment. You don't try to reach out to people who you believe are a lost cause. How would you have him react? Should he actively support something that he believes is immoral? You want his help, but how could he help something that he saw as being wrong? He did the only compassionate thing he could: He tried to get you to see the error of your ways. Siding with Sununu isn't just bad strategy, it is wrong. It is madness. Lifting up a tyrant and promoting him as a lover of freedom is wrong. Associating myself, and my beliefs, with his is wrong. And deceitful. No matter if it increases my supposed "legitimacy" in the eyes of others.

Jraxis says that those who want to use political power to destroy it are beyond corruption. I say, look at this whoring with Sununu! The corruption has already begun, before you even acquire the ring.
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John

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2008, 05:28 AM NHFT »

For those concerned about people comming into the Freedom movement via "the system":

Words like, "Government is not the answer to our problems; Government is the problem" and "Extremism in the pursuit of Liberty is no vice; and moderation in pursuit of Justice is no virtue" and "Live free or die; Death  is not the worst of evils" helped bring many of us into this movement, and many of those words came from folks "inside."

My first vote for president was for R. R. but before his first term was over I knew better than to vote for him a second time.
Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I have learned.  I have learned some from folks inside the system and some from folks outside the system. I have also been disappointed by some inside and some outside . . .

After not missing a vote since I turned 18, as the the clock ticks and the calendar moves toward the next election, I am uncertain whether or not I will continue to vote.  PLEASE always look for ways to invite people into the Freedom movement - and be careful not to push folks away.
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Jared

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2008, 10:30 PM NHFT »

looks like it's going to be june 21st.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8Osk3nOnvM
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srqrebel

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Re: Paul calling for march on Washington
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2008, 12:13 PM NHFT »

srqrebel, I was pretty pissed about your Sununu protest at Liberty Forum, and haven't spent much time at this forum since, for that and other reasons.  But I just read through this thread, looking for more info on the potential march on Washington, and have to admit that your manifesto(?) above is pretty thought-provoking.  I also have been checking out Stefan Molyneux's writings recently, and while I whole-heartedly agree with some of it, I have a really hard time wrapping my mind around other parts of it.  If you can point me in the direction of more instructional material on these sorts of ideas, perhaps in time you can chalk me up as a convert.  :o

My apologies for not responding to this post, sooner, Sandy.  unfortunately, I tend to get sidetracked sometimes, and neglect things I meant to take seriously... :(

As far as the background for my way of thinking, it more or less started with various writings of Dr. Frank R. Wallace, especially The Neo-Tech Discovery (later revised and renamed The Zonpower Discovery), as well as my all-time personal favorite, Sic Itur Ad Astra by Andrew J. Galambos.  Unfortunately, all of these are now out of print and extremely difficult to obtain.

These form the general foundation of my thinking; yet it took literally over a decade of incubation for all of their powerful identifications to start to 'jell' to a point where I could clearly internalize the accurate paradigm of what the Authoritarian Model of Government really is, and what it really represents, and why it makes perfect sense to categorically withdraw from this highly obsolete, literally criminal model of "governing".

Another author I would highly recommend is Carl Watner, founder of the concept of voluntaryism.

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