This makes me so mad!!!

[srqrebel]

Hi rainey!

To bring this closer to home, we can get the state to outlaw hunting in a 20 mile radius around your house. This way the deer can thrive and you can watch them in your backyard over your morning cup of coffee ... and your lunch ... and dinner .

Unless you depend on your garden to eat

I was kinda assuming that was his point

[Lactivist]

Hey, I have to chime in and say there is room for environmentalism and love of nature while being liberty oriented.  I think that it will probably be up to the non-profits to educate locals and eventually there will be a balance.  I don't think more laws are the answer.

However, I think that rainey's "big heart" shouldn't be a problem either.  Most non-profits are going to have to bring in alternate money makers and educate would be poachers.  I feel if you are upset by the situation, you should look into supporting those organizations that can make positive change and help maintain elephant populations.  This is a chance for non-government mandated wildlife protection.  Taking away the law, means that if you care you have to get active and support them.  Most of the discussions I've had with my husband about freedom and environmentalism always end with him telling me that such things would be supported by people who care (by them giving $, not the gov't taking it and deciding where it goes).  I'm all for that, if humans can actually get past the greed factor...by the way, does anyone think that this would be the reality?  If we are not forced to give to charities, will you reach into your pocket and help?  Will most charities just fall by the wayside in a free society?  That is one of my big questions...interested in hearing what others have to say about it.

[Raineyrocks]

Stossel did a report on how they improved the elephant population in some places with incredible effectiveness by allowing local people to own them. I don't know for sure if they owned the actual elephants or pieces of land populated by elephants. The idea was the owners could charge for hunting and what not and they had a personal interest in maintaining the population for the own lively hood and they did an excellent job of stopping poachers and ensuring that they weren't over-hunted.

Wow, I'd love to have a pet elephant even though I would never want to take an elephant out of their natural environment or away from their families.  They are so smart and family oriented, they are one of the most amazing animals in the world, to me anyways.

I used to imagine that I had an elephant in my lunch box and of course he was shrunken but when I opened my lunch box he would be normal size and we would hang out.  Yeah, I'm weird I know!

[Raineyrocks]

I don't know the whole story here.

If the elephant herds have grown to big,
what else are you gonna do?

They will eat themselves out of food in their area,
then go looking in populated area's.

It ain't like you can put up a fence to keep them out
of your yard and garden.

The smart thing to do would be to charge big bucks
for hunting safaris.

So that probably won't happen.

I know what you mean and I thought about that too but maybe we have it all wrong and we are the ones over populating and taking their land.  I don't know, sometimes nothing makes any sense in this world.

[Raineyrocks]

What do they call that stuff between Elephant's toes?

Slow natives.

[Raineyrocks]

They will eat themselves out of food in their area,
then go looking in populated area's.

Actually, you don't even need a fence. Wildlife Conservation Society researchers have been successful in keeping elephants out of private land by growing chili peppers!  Elephants hate them.  They grow a crop around the property and the elephants won't cross over (they assume the area all tastes the same).  OK, so it is kind of a "fence". 

Wow, that is neat info!  And a nicer solution!

[Raineyrocks]

Hi rainey!

To bring this closer to home, we can get the state to outlaw hunting in a 20 mile radius around your house. This way the deer can thrive and you can watch them in your backyard over your morning cup of coffee ... and your lunch ... and dinner .

This will also help revive the wolf and coyote populations. Wow, to be able to listen to the howling during the evening.

Just an illustration of one possible reason for the culling. Human population and excessive wildlife are incompatible to many people.

That's pretty cool info, where would I look to get something like that instituted? 

[Raineyrocks]

Hey, I have to chime in and say there is room for environmentalism and love of nature while being liberty oriented.  I think that it will probably be up to the non-profits to educate locals and eventually there will be a balance.  I don't think more laws are the answer.

However, I think that rainey's "big heart" shouldn't be a problem either.  Most non-profits are going to have to bring in alternate money makers and educate would be poachers.  I feel if you are upset by the situation, you should look into supporting those organizations that can make positive change and help maintain elephant populations.  This is a chance for non-government mandated wildlife protection.  Taking away the law, means that if you care you have to get active and support them.  Most of the discussions I've had with my husband about freedom and environmentalism always end with him telling me that such things would be supported by people who care (by them giving $, not the gov't taking it and deciding where it goes).  I'm all for that, if humans can actually get past the greed factor...by the way, does anyone think that this would be the reality?  If we are not forced to give to charities, will you reach into your pocket and help?  Will most charities just fall by the wayside in a free society?  That is one of my big questions...interested in hearing what others have to say about it.

Thanks and I think you have a great idea there but my feelings are that greed always seems to creep into well meaning organizations a lot of the time.  Even though I'm pretty sure there must some that are uncorrupted it's just hard finding out if the $$ we send is going where it's supposed to. 

The kids get upset with me when I don't donate for certain diseases at grocery stores or wherever but I told them the medical industry is such a corrupt racket that the $$ doesn't get used for prevention which is where it really needs to start.

Good idea though and I'd be willing to look into it more and let you know what I find out.

I know there was this dog sanctuary, I forget what state, but it was privately run and they asked for donations and I always felt they were on the up and up so I didn't mind sending them some money.

I didn't give a dime to the Red Cross after September 11th because I knew that was a racket and look what happened, people found out they were pocketing the money.

[J’raxis 270145]

Hey, I have to chime in and say there is room for environmentalism and love of nature while being liberty oriented. 

Environmentalism gets such a bad rap among liberty-oriented people because the mainstream uses environmentalism as a means to exert more control over people. Since we naturally reject that, it's also natural for some people to conclude that the whole thing is to be rejected. Some people just have to think in a binary manner like that.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Hi rainey!

To bring this closer to home, we can get the state to outlaw hunting in a 20 mile radius around your house. This way the deer can thrive and you can watch them in your backyard over your morning cup of coffee ... and your lunch ... and dinner .

Unless you depend on your garden to eat

I was kinda assuming that was his point

I didn't.  I doubt 1% of people garden at all, probably less than .0001 for sustanence.