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Making Civ. Dis. a little bit easier

Started by David, March 28, 2008, 12:35 PM NHFT

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David

The most important thing is to do what is important to you. 
While there is room to do a particularly visible, high impact, and publicly 'popular' civ dis, if it is not important enough to you to go to jail over, it should not be what you spend a bulk of your time doing. 

Do what is comfortable.  I am not a lawyer wanna be, so legal speak and procedures are not for me.  But I was very comfortable using the moral route, in my recent registration refuseniking.  That is the route I think I will take, in the future.  To anyone who studies the other folks here that have done civ dis, clear differences in approach are obvious.  While we can talk about effectiveness elsewhere, let me point out some of the differences.  Russell is very verbal and friendly when confronted by police, Lauren is almost completely quiet.  Dave R. argued the constitution, whereas Kat did not.  Dave R. and I cooperated to some degree with the courts, Kat, Russell, and Lauren do not. 

Have a clear goal.  I know the morale people talk about this all the time, but it is important.  Ask yourself, what do you want to accomplish with your act of civ dis.  Be Realistic.  I knew most would not support me in my registration refusenik, so my goal was to effect enforcement of it, rather than trying to pressure change to the law. 
Prepare for it.  Elsewhere Dave R posted various ways to prepare for civ dis.  Be prepared to be arrested.  Not everyone is.  If you get arrested, what about your rent, job, bills, and family. 

This isn't about playing a game of chicken.  Civ Dis isn't about 'challenging or daring' them to arrest you.  Civ dis is very effective, but personally expensive. 
Let me reinforce the idea to be realistic and to have a clear goal.  Talk to the veterans.  Including those outside of our little group.  We are hardly the only ones periodically violating gov't laws. 
The idea of civ dis is surprizingly popular among some people.  It is even spoken well of by some politicians.  Of course it depends entirely on the issue, as to whether other people will 'approve' or not.  It is possible, that some of our jailers, who at times seems to not want us there, even admire some acts of civ dis., of course depending on the issue. 

Prolly the most important thing about peaceful civ dis, is the peaceful part.  This is important for many reasons.  It makes it easier for the enforcers to look the other way.  When they don't look the other way, they at least generally don't want to hurt you, and you don't make a bitter adversary.  Violent revolution can only be done once if you are unseccessful, as you will either be dead, or in prison for the rest of your life.  It helps you maintaint the important moral high ground.  And long term, the legacy of good means results in good ends. 

srqrebel

Well said, David!

I consider these two points especially important:

Quote from: David on March 28, 2008, 12:35 PM NHFT
...Be prepared to be arrested.  Not everyone is.  If you get arrested, what about your rent, job, bills, and family. 

This isn't about playing a game of chicken.  Civ Dis isn't about 'challenging or daring' them to arrest you...


Vitruvian

This is quite a coincidence; I was just about to post this video (n.b. David and Russell are mentioned by name):

Full-Size here

Although my own imprisonment, or that of one of my friends, might bring attention to the cause of liberty, I have to agree with LibertyIsNotGiven, in that I do not wish to place myself deliberately at the mercy of the state.  Being confined to a prison cell does not serve my purposes, namely to live and love in peace.  Of what use is freedom of the mind without corresponding freedom of the body?

Like the video poster, I have enormous respect and admiration for those "martyrs of liberty," but the perchance-fatal assumption of civil disobedience is one's eventual release: in this case, the adversary is perfectly capable, and probably content, to let such martyrs rot away in a dungeon, out of sight and out of mind.

flaherty

#3
David - great points. first, congratulations on your success. i couldn't agree more about being prepared to go to jail. i feel this is something far too many activists do not consider deeply enough. given the current government condition and mindset, people taking part in any form of activism need to do so under the impression they WILL be going to jail and depending on their past record, prison. not the possability, that is not enough. individuals need to assume the certainty.


srqrebel

When I tried to play the video, I got this message: "We're sorry, this video is no longer available."

srqrebel

Quote from: Vitruvian on March 28, 2008, 02:14 PM NHFT
...the adversary is perfectly capable, and probably content, to let such martyrs rot away in a dungeon, out of sight and out of mind.

That has been the case in the past, but the beauty of the NH activist crowd is that not only will we never forget, we will not give the public the opportunity to forget, either.

Keeping an individual in jail longer than is necessary to satisfy the popular perception of "justice for the crime", only undermines their cloak of legitimacy.

While I would never depend on them to do the smart thing, the fact remains that they are being backed into a corner, and the smartest thing they can do in response to our activism is to ignore us, and hope we eventually go away. That is especially true of the fast growing body of hardcore NH civdis activists.

Tom Sawyer

Quote from: srqrebel on March 29, 2008, 11:28 AM NHFT
When I tried to play the video, I got this message: "We're sorry, this video is no longer available."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNQji9JxgxI

He has it set now to not allow embedding the video, the link above works.

Vitruvian

Quote from: Tom SawyerHe has it set now to not allow embedding the video, the link above works.

Thanks, Roger.  I was trying to re-post the video just when you responded.

Quote from: srqrebelKeeping an individual in jail longer than is necessary to satisfy the popular perception of "justice for the crime", only undermines their cloak of legitimacy.

You're right, but what of the prisoner?

David

It has taken me a very long time to get to the point of where I am willing to confront the state.  I fear them.  For a long time I watched with great respect Mike Fisher, and Lauren, then Russell, Kat, DaveR., but had in mind there had to be some other way. 
I repeatedly came to the same question, how, without pressure will we regain our freedom?  Over and over I came to this question.  I looked at every other option that seemed promising, including political activism.  But it kept occuring to me, that the gov't got to where it is because some people, many people, wanted it that way.  The gov't will never change without substantial pressure.  How do we create that pressure?
I routinely call civ dis "pushback against the police".  Because that is really what the civ disobeyer is doing, the police push first, we peacefully 'push' back.  The goal is never to get arrested, it is to essentually in raw terms, modify the behavior of the police.  If the police will not enforce the law, then who will? 
These people 'pushed back', and it worked for them.  Scroll down the page. 
http://www.embassyofheaven.com/

Trust me, if there was a viable way that seemed to work, I would try it.  I really do not like the idea of going to jail.  But an acceptance of that is neccessary if you are to non-violently resist. 

srqrebel

Quote from: Vitruvian on March 29, 2008, 02:48 PM NHFT
Quote from: srqrebelKeeping an individual in jail longer than is necessary to satisfy the popular perception of "justice for the crime", only undermines their cloak of legitimacy.

You're right, but what of the prisoner?

Well, first of all, in case anyone got the wrong impression, I am definitely not implying that it is anyone's moral responsibility to go to jail, or even engage in civdis (although IMO jail is the real Galt's Gulch).

Speaking for myself, I have reached the point where I have such a strong desire to exist in an environment so completely void of coercion, where I am free to concentrate on personal growth and prosperity, that the issue of whether or not I am being physically detained in my current coercive environment is of little consequence to me. (Ian sums it up nicely: "We exist in a comfortable prison".)

In jail or prison, I would presumably have access to books and other reading material while having my basic needs supplied to me at no charge. It was during a weekend jail stint (for driving without begging permission to do so), that I took the opportunity to read the classic novel Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. What a fortunate situation for someone who is already focused on knowledge and personal growth! Longer jail stays present an unusual opportunity to get to read the books on one's reading list, by having friends on the outside mail them. Even without any reading material, one still retains the innate ability to think -- to exercise one's mind in relative solitude -- and make new and exciting integrations of knowledge.

There is a silver lining to every cloud -- and IMO this particular cloud bears an unusual amount of it! :icon_pirat: