“Property Taxes” and the Consent of the Governed

[FTL_Ian]

My property tax story so far has been posted at Free Keene:

http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/

It's a long one, so I'll only post the first paragraph here as a teaser.

What is the nature of this organization of people calling themselves the "government"? Is it based in consent, as their own founding documents claim? Or are they actually a group of men and women doing business by the threat of violence? The latter is what most of the people I associate with believe, but which is the truth? Earlier this year, I ventured into a similar area when I questioned the government people over a parking ticket. You can read parts one and two of that here. (Eventually, I will write a part three when time permits!)

So, now we begin a new saga into the world of "property taxes".

If you're like me, paying property taxes is a painful experience.

Read it all at:
http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/

[Lex]

Excellent work Ian! It will be interesting to see if they will make attempts to respond to all of your questions.

[Russell Kanning]

cool

[Free libertarian]

  You asked very good questions in your letter.  On another freedom oriented website earlier this week I had posted something about how you never really "own" your property as long as it is subject to forfeiture from the property tax monster. Since it's been on my mind alot lately, I'm pleased you are making an effort to get some answers on taxes.  Don't be surprised if the communication breaks down and you get a "because we say so" type answer pretty soon, which will be pretty revealing about how a government by consent is run these days...   
Do you mind if others borrow the wording in your letter and attempt to get some answers from their property tax overlords?  It would be interesting to see if the answers are consistent.  Thanks and keep up the good work.

[FTL_Ian]

Please borrow my ideas.  I don't believe in intellectual property!

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

I know one person who has been successful for over 10 years in not paying property taxes. I have heard from various sources, including this person, that it hinges on an "Allodial" title. There are some states that recognize this outright and others where precedent has been set recognizing such a free and clear, unencumbered title based on going back to the original land grants. The person I know has traced his land back to the original land grant, carries a copy of that grant with him, keeps a copy in his safe, his lawyer has a copy, and has refiled the original at the registry of deeds. SCOTUS ruled against NH when it tried to revoke the allodial title from the land grant of King George III to Dartmouth College. The most recent things I've heard about this are that those who dare to speak up about the exorbitant property taxes and dare to mention allodial title are considered "tax protesters" who belong in jail.

[Barterer]

...SCOTUS ruled against NH when it tried to revoke the allodial title from the land grant of King George III to Dartmouth College. The most recent things I've heard about this are that those who dare to speak up about the exorbitant property taxes and dare to mention allodial title are considered "tax protesters" who belong in jail.

Know of any allodial-titled land in NH that is for sale?  I'd pay a premium for it. I wonder if you can parcel out a large allodial area into smaller lots, and generate as many allodial titles.

[Russell Kanning]

yippee .... this thread brought up a bob barr forum ad

[KBCraig]

yippee .... this thread brought up a bob barr forum ad

It was a newsmax.com Obama v. McCain ad when I clicked.

So I clicked. I'd rather take money from the neocons for you, than from an ostensible libertarian.

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

Know of any allodial-titled land in NH that is for sale?  I'd pay a premium for it. I wonder if you can parcel out a large allodial area into smaller lots, and generate as many allodial titles.

I don't know much about it. I don't know if it can be sub-divided without losing the allodial designation or if a parcel has lost its allodial capability if sub-divided... I just don't know. My apologies. The person I was specifically referring to owns their parcel in North Central Massachusetts and has had the town trying to "get them" for over a decade (without success). I've seen his (rather large) file folder on this and the contents... including the copy of the old, hand-written, original land grant that was dated and sealed in the colonial era. (Again, sorry but I don't know the exact date... it was in 17XX... I don't recall whether it was before/after the DoI, Constitution, etc. )

I realize that I'm not being very helpful, but it isn't something that I, personally, have pursued or done much research on. I just happen to know a true patriot that has gone this route. I also know that he hasn't paid any property taxes for 10 years. (How, you might ask... well, here's how) Evidently, from the Newspaper article (buried in the paper, definitely not on any front page of any section... guess the courts didn't want the masses to know about it) that I read from his folder, the town had tried to basically confiscate his property. First for unpaid taxes, Second by eminent domain. Both times he won and the town was told they couldn't do it. Caused somewhat of a flap because his "neighbors" (not very "neighborly" if you ask me) were upset that they were paying taxes (like we're ALL supposed to  ) and he wasn't. That's about all I remember off the top of my head and that was a few years ago. I know he still lives there, but I don't even know which town it is actually... I may remember how to get there, but it's been years. We usually see each other at the local "Fun Range". 

[John Edward Mercier]

Alloidial title requires that you are either the original or direct heir of a land grant from either one of the Crowns.

[Barterer]

That was pretty informative anyway, FreelanceFreedomFighter.. +1.  The fact that the owner isn't paying any property taxes implies that the allodial title also protects him from taxation on his house or any other "improvements" made to the property!

Alloidial title requires that you are either the original or direct heir of a land grant from either one of the Crowns.

I wonder what constitutes an acceptable heir.  The direct inheritors of land bequeathed in colonial times would be long dead, so there must be a way of keeping the chain of heirs going.. which makes me wonder if it has to involve biological offspring, or if some sort of legal heir-ship can be established.

[John Edward Mercier]

There were very few that received land grants from the Crown, so anyone inheriting property could check the records. As long as the string was not broken by an encumbance... it most likely would stand-up in court.

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

Like I said, I don't know the details (and the devil is in the details), but...

I don't think this person obtained their property through inheritance or has a direct link back to any original land grant from the Crown. Also, he told me about others who've done the work to trace their property and filed allodial title as well. (According to what he was telling/showing me those years ago.) Actually, there have also been land grants since the founding of the US, from the US to individuals... so it must be more than just "from the Crown". (unless "the Crown" means "the Gubermint" whoever that is.)

[John Edward Mercier]

The alloidial title is generally either Napoleonic (Quebecois), or a British Crown grant... that the British Monarchy can no longer en serf through might.

So the Dartmouth College grant would be feudal... but no longer en serf... resulting in alloidial.

The US did have a homesteaders act that allowed one to stake claim to US Federal property in certain regions and times... but that claim would not make it a grant.