License to Kill

[Russell Kanning]

What if its an undercover cop reaching for his badge?

If it were another cop I would hope they would be sensible enough not to make a quick move for it.? They should put their hands up where the other officers can see them and say loudly enough to be heard something like "don't shoot I'm a cop, I'm slowly going to reach in and get my badge".

but what if the guy yelling that "looks" like a terrorist?

[lildog]

Nobody is forced to be a police officer and they are pretty well paid. Part of the job is putting your life at risk in such situations until you are sure of what the subject is doing.

So then why SHOULD anyone become police officers? ?And believe me, I?m on the Merrimack Budget Committee, they are not paid NEARLY as well as you would think. ?Police and fire in NH are grossly underpaid.

Nobody, including me, is going to get on a cop's case for assuming that anything that looks like a real firearm IS a real firearm. But assuming that anything that I am attempting to pull from a jacket pocket is a firearm is a huge leap from that.

You?re argument is still based around the cop WAITING until he sees what the person is pulling on him. ?In a split second life or death situation that cop could be dead before he correctly identifies what the person is pulling out.

I?m sorry but we may just have to agree to disagree on this because I see it perfectly sensible that if you fit a description of someone police are told is dangerous and they corner you and you in turn start making sudden moves then you?re an out right idiot and should be shot!

Why is it so unreasonable to expect people to just freeze and put their hands up when police come at them and scream freeze?

The example is doubly flawed because you only require that he "fit the description." So the cops aren't even sure that this is the criminal! If he's not the criminal he could have all kinds of additional reasons for reaching quickly into his pocket. As far as I am concerned you've just described rules of engagement that are responsible for the kinds of mistakes we are trying to keep from happening.

So you would rather see police hesitate and die in larger numbers so stupid people wont be shot?

[lildog]

What if its an undercover cop reaching for his badge 

If it were another cop I would hope they would be sensible enough not to make a quick move for it.  They should put their hands up where the other officers can see them and say loudly enough to be heard something like "don't shoot I'm a cop, I'm slowly going to reach in and get my badge".

but what if the guy yelling that "looks" like a terrorist?

If it were an undercover cop I would hope he or she WOULD look like a criminal? that?s the whole point of being undercover.

If someone yelled out ?I?m a cop? and slowly reached then police should hold off to see what is pulled out and I would hope the person would slowly reach as they said? if the said that then went as fast as they could reaching into their jacket I wouldn?t be shocked to see someone shoot them as they created a reasonable suspicion with the sudden move.

[Russell Kanning]

So I should slowly pull the cord while I say the magic words.

[Russell Kanning]

So then why SHOULD anyone become police officers?

Police and fire in NH are grossly underpaid.

Why is it so unreasonable to expect people to just freeze and put their hands up when police come at them and scream freeze?

So you would rather see police hesitate and die in larger numbers so stupid people wont be shot?

Because they want to serve the people.

HaHaHa

Because they shoot people.

Yes

[ethanpooley]

if you fit a description of someone police are told is dangerous and they corner you and you in turn start making sudden moves then you?re an out right idiot and should be shot!

Why is it so unreasonable to expect people to just freeze and put their hands up when police come at them and scream freeze?

You don't seem to have a rights-based view of rules of engagement. The subject has rights. Being an idiot does not diminish them. It is unreasonable to expect *any* particular action when a police officer "comes at them and screams freeze" because many people behave erratically under such stress. Most innocent people's immediate reaction is to try to convince the cop that they must be mistaken; that they are really innocent. Somebody who just bought something from a street vender might assume that they cop thinks it was drugs, and be pulling it out intsinctively to show that it isn't. Running from, disobeying, and making sudden moves in the presence of cops is not punishable by death in this country.

If cops aren't paid enough to do their jobs without unnecessarily endangering innocent people, then they should quit. Because the fact that they aren't paid enough to do it right doesn't give them the right to do it wrong. Nothing can give them that right. It's like the judge that agreed with several of Thoreau's arguments that the judge was essentially an agent of injustice, and asked what he should do (I think I'm remembering this right anyway...) Thoreau replied that if he really wanted to do something, he should resign his post. He couldn't both fulfill his oaths to the state and his responsibilities to his fellow man at the same time. On a side note, if we got rid of all the victimless crimes we would have plenty of money to pay, very well, the number of cops we actually need.

[TackleTheWorld]

Running from, disobeying, and making sudden moves in the presence of cops is not punishable by death in this country.

Well said.  The police are hired to protect the stupid and excitable as well as anyone else.  If they can't refrain from shooting their employers, we don't need them.