Bad Times Draw Bigger Crowds to Churches

[J’raxis 270145]

"It's a wonderful time, a great evangelistic opportunity for us," said the Rev. A. R. Bernard, founder and senior pastor of the Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn, New York's largest evangelical congregation, where regulars are arriving earlier to get a seat. "When people are shaken to the core, it can open doors."

Yeah, taking advantage of people when they're vulnerable is so noble. Like crack dealers preying upon runaways...



And what I was talking about nearly six months ago seems to be continuing as expected...

Those hemlines are REALLY low... better short the banks and stock up on canned goods 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2308708/This-summer%27s-look%2C-share-plunge-hems.html

Tracking hemlines as some sort of indicator sounds a bit silly at first, but the theory they're getting at in the article is generally correct: In hard times, people become more modest, conservative (in the social sense), and so on. Religions that promote self-denial and an afterlife usually begin making a resurgence, too: People need to rationalize why their life is so austere, now, and need to hope for something better, later on.

In hard times, people become more modest, conservative (in the social sense), and so on. Religions that promote self-denial and an afterlife usually begin making a resurgence, too

Ahhh. Now we know why the bastards are ruining the economy. They have a plan to grow social conservatism and fiction worship.

In hard times, people become more modest, conservative (in the social sense), and so on. Religions that promote self-denial and an afterlife usually begin making a resurgence, too

Ahhh. Now we know why the bastards are ruining the economy. They have a plan to grow social conservatism and fiction worship.

Maybe. It is a known fact that the neoconservatives believe in the noble lie theory of governance—that is, promulgate myths that the rulers knows to be false, but useful, in order to inculcate "morality" (and thus obedience) in the population. And these neocons are quite friendly with the extreme religious right, aren't they...

[anthonybpugh]

maybe it is seeking the comfort of other people. 

[J’raxis 270145]

maybe it is seeking the comfort of other people. 

Oh, I'm sure that's part of why people turn to this stuff in hard times. But that doesn't change anything I said about people like Bernard here trying to take advantage of them.

[KBCraig]

Yes, but do you go there because you want more money?

The most "monetary" quote I could find in the article you posted was this:

...prayer requests have doubled — almost all of them aimed at getting or keeping jobs.

I can find nothing to condemn in people seeking emotional comfort in tough times by joining a fully voluntary group and praying for gainful employment. Christian evangelism offering fellowship, aid and comfort to those who are suffering from uncertainty, is philosophically indistinguishable from Porcupine evangelism offering fellowship, aid and comfort to those who are suffering from uncertainty.

Parish hall, fellowship hall, Porcupine Manor, or Animal Farm... does it really matter when people help people voluntarily without relying on government force?

[Pat K]

Yes, but do you go there because you want more money?

The most "monetary" quote I could find in the article you posted was this:

...prayer requests have doubled — almost all of them aimed at getting or keeping jobs.

I can find nothing to condemn in people seeking emotional comfort in tough times by joining a fully voluntary group and praying for gainful employment. Christian evangelism offering fellowship, aid and comfort to those who are suffering from uncertainty, is philosophically indistinguishable from Porcupine evangelism offering fellowship, aid and comfort to those who are suffering from uncertainty.

Parish hall, fellowship hall, Porcupine Manor, or Animal Farm... does it really matter when people help people voluntarily without relying on government force?

Incorrect. The philosophic difference is any fellowship,
aid or comfort I offer is my own. I don't promise them
magic, hope or prosperity, if they sacrifice themselves to my magical
invisible friend.  Nor will I threaten them with damnation if they don't.

[J’raxis 270145]

Yes, but do you go there because you want more money?

The most "monetary" quote I could find in the article you posted was this:

...prayer requests have doubled — almost all of them aimed at getting or keeping jobs.

I can find nothing to condemn in people seeking emotional comfort in tough times by joining a fully voluntary group and praying for gainful employment. Christian evangelism offering fellowship, aid and comfort to those who are suffering from uncertainty, is philosophically indistinguishable from Porcupine evangelism offering fellowship, aid and comfort to those who are suffering from uncertainty.

Parish hall, fellowship hall, Porcupine Manor, or Animal Farm... does it really matter when people help people voluntarily without relying on government force?

Incorrect. The philosophic difference is any fellowship,
aid or comfort I offer is my own. I don't promise them
magic, hope or prosperity, if they sacrifice themselves to my magical
invisible friend.  Nor will I threaten them with damnation if they don't.

Bingo. People are certainly free to believe in this stuff if they want. But from the point of view of people who don't believe in it, this is "fellowship" based either on shared delusion or fraud.

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't promise them magic, hope or prosperity, if they sacrifice themselves to my magical
invisible friend.  Nor will I threaten them with damnation if they don't.

Speak for yourself Friar Pat... I'm offering all of this and much more!

Attractive women are especially welcomed to join my cult. 

[Pat K]

I don't promise them magic, hope or prosperity, if they sacrifice themselves to my magical
invisible friend.  Nor will I threaten them with damnation if they don't.

Speak for yourself Friar Pat... I'm offering all of this and much more!

Attractive women are especially welcomed to join my cult. 

I see you have been at the hooch again.

[ByronB]

Incorrect. The philosophic difference is any fellowship,
aid or comfort I offer is my own. I don't promise them
magic, hope or prosperity, if they sacrifice themselves to my magical
invisible friend.  Nor will I threaten them with damnation if they don't.

Yes, well in their defense I seem to remember from when I used to attend church that congregation members would help each other out if they fell on hard times (or even just needed help at all) so I would assume that many other churches do more then just threaten you with hell and say their invisible friend will give them their reward for forking out 10% of their cash.

Frank O'Neill, 54, a manager who lost his job at Morgan Stanley this year, said the "humbling experience" of unemployment made him cast about for a more personal relationship with God than he was able to find in the Catholicism of his youth. In joining the Shelter Rock Church on Long Island, he said, he found a deeper sense of "God's authority over everything — I feel him walking with me (my emphasis)."

On a unrelated note, this quote reminds me of when I was 13-ish and started to quite seriously question my faith after I heard this older girl (25?) give a testimonial where (to cut to the chase) she said that she was lonely from being single (too f-ing weird to get any I suppose) and that she could feel God having sex with her (she didn't use the evil "S" word though, thats my shortened interpretation of what she said), I was like WTF is wrong here, I hope I never develop that close of a relationship with God (shudders).

[Pat K]

Well, yes the church just like the Government
do their very best to always hide the violence
now don't they.

So again the philosophy is not the same.

[Lloyd Danforth]

My early days in church were in a big, cold, Catholic church.  If anyone even greeted each other, I don't remember. I visited my friend's Protestant church and the atmosphere was friendlier and they had an active youth group.
Many years later, during the anti-Draft resistance in 1980, I met people from and spent time in both Quaker and Unitarian meeting houses.  They were friendly and 'functional' in the same way families should be functional.
Without the religion part these would be good voluntary social organizations.  There are some folks without power huddling in churches right now in NH.

[Free libertarian]

Incorrect. The philosophic difference is any fellowship,
aid or comfort I offer is my own. I don't promise them
magic, hope or prosperity, if they sacrifice themselves to my magical
invisible friend.  Nor will I threaten them with damnation if they don't.

Yes, well in their defense I seem to remember from when I used to attend church that congregation members would help each other out if they fell on hard times (or even just needed help at all) so I would assume that many other churches do more then just threaten you with hell and say their invisible friend will give them their reward for forking out 10% of their cash.

Frank O'Neill, 54, a manager who lost his job at Morgan Stanley this year, said the "humbling experience" of unemployment made him cast about for a more personal relationship with God than he was able to find in the Catholicism of his youth. In joining the Shelter Rock Church on Long Island, he said, he found a deeper sense of "God's authority over everything — I feel him walking with me (my emphasis)."

On a unrelated note, this quote reminds me of when I was 13-ish and started to quite seriously question my faith after I heard this older girl (25?) give a testimonial where (to cut to the chase) she said that she was lonely from being single (too f-ing weird to get any I suppose) and that she could feel God having sex with her (she didn't use the evil "S" word though, thats my shortened interpretation of what she said), I was like WTF is wrong here, I hope I never develop that close of a relationship with God (shudders).

...Well let's not discount the 25 year old totally she may have moaned "OH GOD"  at THAT moment for a reason! 

[Sam A. Robrin]

...Well let's not discount the 25 year old totally she may have moaned "OH GOD"  at THAT moment for a reason! 

According to John Cleland's magnum opus, in the eighteenth century, people were in the habit of moaning "Oh! I die" in momets of climax.  Which, if you think about it, isn't substantially different from "Oh, God, I'm coming." . . .

[William]

Boohoo...     I'm going to beg my invisible friend to get me more money.

lol

"It's a wonderful time, a great evangelistic opportunity for us," "When people are shaken to the core, it can open doors."

This is true for us too! Maybe they'll be shaken enough to break the glass house they've been living in.

Also known as, when reality sucks, live in a fantasy world. "If madness is gladness and sanity's pain..."

I know, it's why I spent my early years playing D&D.

[Jim Johnson]

I see a distinct difference between "us" and any religious group... we search for actual answers to solvable problems, where religion has one answer to all problems... ask the invisible man.

There is nothing wrong with coming together during hard times... but if you are going to knee and wish...

I wish you well.