Molyneux' FDR controversy is going too far

[memenode]

I just found out that since that Guardian article portraying Stefan Molyneux' Freedomain Radio as a cult that influenced a son to break all connections with his mother more interesting and frankly disturbing things have happened, such as the story being virally repeated all over the web in multiple publications and Stefan seeking to close down the Liberating Minds forum for slander, thus being accused of censorship.

The way I see it what's going on is terrible and potentially hurting towards the voluntaryist, anarcho capitalist and perhaps even the general libertarian cause. The central issues really are the whole deFOOing thing that Stefan seems to encourage, the banning and censorship. Everything else really seems to be fluff more than anything. And IMHO, all of the outcry about deFOOing seems like an extreme exaggeration. Even if Stefan is successfully manipulative, it is not solely his manipulation skills that the break ups with parents can be attributed to, but also the weaknesses or strengths of the one who broke up. And I don't recall him threatening people with force if they don't defoo.

As for censorship and banning, I'd actually agree, from limited knowledge I have of it, that Stefan may be pushing his luck and I don't agree with his strategy there, but then I tend to be a very liberal moderator on my sites.

The point I want to make is this. People who effectively want to shut down FDR and are using every chance they get to badmouth it may in fact be just as harmful as they claim Stefan is, because they are attempting to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Defooing is only a small piece of what Stefan promotes, and arguably so is the UPB. He has a way of saying things. His podcasts are a treasure for the liberty activists, but this controversy apparently filled with emotion and warrantless extremes threatens to extinguish the positive along with the negative! I know Stefan isn't exactly helping. If I were in his shoes I'd deal with this far differently.. so there we go.. something that could otherwise be turned into a mutually profitable learning and evolving experience is turning into a god damn flame war with no end in sight.

And that's how we're supposed to attract people to libertarianism, voluntaryism or ancap? I don't think so folks. In fact it makes me want to throw off all of those terms and not consider myself a part of any particular movement. I am beginning to think that the only way freedom will become a standard in the world is if those who think like us decide to stop acting like a movement and start acting like individuals.

[FTL_Ian]

Link?

[Jim Johnson]

In fact it makes me want to throw off all of those terms and not consider myself a part of any particular movement.

That is the point, to be free... an individual... your almost home.   

[memenode]

Link?

- Guardian article (Stef's response).

- "Molyneux Cult Watch" which contains much of the controversy information including links to other stories (page 5 of the thread), claim that he complained to cafepress to remove their items (page and a quote of the notice Liberating Minds admins received after Stef's request for it to be shut down (also page 8, near the end).

- Recent Stef's notes about Liberating Minds

So he's apparently become active in trying to stop what he sees as slander, therefore fueling the opposition even further. Them on the other hand keep pushing their exaggerations... pretty ugly.

[TackleTheWorld]

Ugly?  You call that ugly?
Stef would probably ask:
Of all the injustices and crimes and abuses happening in the world, why would someone work so hard to attack some internet philosopher throwing his opinion around and throwing people off his own forum?

[memenode]

Oh I didn't mean only what he is doing is ugly, but both. To clarify, it looks like both sides are doing all the wrong things which serve only to escalate. It's not very diplomatic and it only helps to ruin the good will of people who are expected to give people like us the benefit of the doubt.

Before you know it the general reputation of everyone who believes in 100% free market, total individualism etc. will be pre-branded with negative connotations like "oh, you are those people who end up breaking children from their parents" or "you must be part of some libertarian or anarchist cult" etc. Again, I'm not blaming solely Stefan for this. The extremes to which his opposition is going is what gives the truly negative tone to these assertions because on closer inspection absolutely nobody is being forced to break relationships nor is it truly a cult.

You make a good point though, but consider that it is us who wish to face all of the injustices, crimes and abuses happening in the world, yet some of us are too busy with this kind of inside wars and politicking. It cripples the market image of our ideas (incidentally my ideas too, to speak more like a single individual), and that's certainly not helping.

[Jim Johnson]

Aaaaahh... Stefan is ruining it for the rest us! 

Just like Russell and Kat and Lauren did.

Next he'll be poisoning the well like Ian and Mark.

[Russell Kanning]

it seems pretty easy to avoid the "ugly-ness"

Stephan doesn't seem to be hurting anyone as far as I can see .... if you don't like him ... he is easy to ignore.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Apparently. Whoever he is.

[Russell Kanning]

and what does he have to do with FDR?

[SethCohn]

Aaaaahh... Stefan is ruining it for the rest us! 

Just like Russell and Kat and Lauren did.

Next he'll be poisoning the well like Ian and Mark.

And with a late last minute entry, the prize for best Seth "impression" in 2008 goes to.....

Jim, for his satiric wit!

ObRelated: Stefan isn't an FSPer, is he?

[EthanLeeVita]

He runs FDR Russell. And no, not a dead former president, freedomain radio.

[Jim Johnson]

I sure it's Franklin Delano Roosevelt... if it was freedomain radio it would be fdr. 

[memenode]

Ah, again I have nothing against Stefan in particular. Damn it I would've thought at least on this forum people would actually pay attention instead of generalize and bracketize. I already said I think both sides are handling the conflict less than diplomatically. If I wanted to pick whom I blame more it'd actually not be Stefan, but the Molyneux Cult Watch guys...

Russel, Kat, Lauren and Ian aren't in some ugly high profile flame war with any of the other voluntaryist/ancaps. There is one between Stef and those who accuse him of cultism though. It's a different situation.

But meh.. I pointed it out, think or do with it what you will. I just wanted to express a concern.

Cheers

[Pat K]

AHHHhhhhh I haven't even seen this in
a CNN special news break.
So I doubt it is a very high profile
flame war.