Mike Barskey pulled over 101 east. Mike taken out of car and around back

[Daien]

From my experiences with pullovers, sometimes with a whole lot at stake.

The cop makes a decision about how things are likely to go in the first 10 seconds of interacting with you. They are concerned if they are in a dangerous situation first off, especially at night. Second they are interested in if they are going to upgrade the pullover into a vehicle search for "contraband", or outstanding warrants arrest.

I have to say that the balance to be struck is up to the individual to make their best call. I have many times driven away from the situation when they could have arrested me.

The balance of showing the cop you aren't trouble for them vs. them realizing they aren't going to be able to walk all over you.

Things you do that are out of the ordinary will get them wondering WTF they are dealing with.

If you have an drivers license from another state, you can tell them you are visiting a friend. But, you have to have your lie figured out first, because they are experienced in tripping you up in the conversation. They only have access to the information in their system and if your story matches that it is pretty much the end of it.

Videotaping the situation can lead to things getting worse. It is somewhat confrontational. Also they lose the ability to use their discretion on what to charge you with. Although you lose some of that when the other cops show up.

Anyway glad ya'll are ok.

This is an incredible post, TS, and I really appreciate all the information and wisdom contained within, especially what I italicized above. I do have an out of state license, and informed the cop that I live in both NH and HI, and that HI is my legal address. Which is another question I have, why did he ask me for my ID, and could I have refused to show it to him?

[mackler]

What would a non-compliant answer have been?

"I drink a lot of water.  It's good for my kidneys!  Would you like some Poland Springs officer - wouldn't want you to get dehydrated whilst lecturing us."

or

"Yes I had a cup of coffee earlier but I ate all the donuts please dont be angry"

the question answer:
"Are you looking for a drink?"
"have you been drinking?"
"are you under the influence of DD coffee?"

or
"I have been drinking..... water."

I hope I'm correct in assuming that these suggestions are jokes and not meant to be taken seriously.  With the exception of "I've been drinking water" (minus the part about "while lecturing us") I don't see how saying any of these things would be productive except to convince yourself how smart you are, or perhaps to shoot some valuable video of yourself getting a beat-down.

Being an insulting, sarcastic smartass to a cop isn't going to make the interaction any briefer.  It isn't going to make the cop think "wow, you're so much wittier than I am, I think I'll let you go now."  It isn't going to make the cop think "I better be careful, this person knows her rights and I might get in trouble if I do something wrong."

I don't see what's wrong with not answering the question and remaining silent.  At worst you won't give the cop any more legitimate justification to intrude further in his "investigation," and at best it will telegraph that you know your rights and that he better make sure he can justify whatever he does next.

[J’raxis 270145]

Just a little story of my own.  I'm not sure what it means, but I'll relay it anyway.

When I was visiting up by Pittsburg, NH (top of the state) this year... I got bagged on the way back in the town of Colebrook going just a little bit over the speed limit.  The cop was relatively cool, at least to the extent that a cop can be cool... which isn't very.... but he didn't write me a summons.   

Anyway, he asked me if I was in a particular town ... it was the usual cop kind of question... you know... asking where I had been to establish facts or whatever.   Thing is.... I wasn't anywhere near that town for many hours, and that town was like 50 miles away.  I had visited it in the morning, and it was now nighttime and I was coming from a completely different direction.   There is no way he could possibly have known I was in that town...   The moment he asked me that, I was immediately curious but didn't let it show.   This was not a random guess, because like I said... I was coming from a completely different direction at that point.   

I suspected that the police have some kind of license plate reader that logs info remotely, and maybe it goes into some kind of database  That is the only conceivable way he could have known that I was in that town.  I see these license plate readers are getting popular nowadays... the cops in NY use them sometimes.  They sit by a stop sign with the reader just reading plates, and automatically within maybe 15 seconds or less, it checks for people with suspended licenses attached to any vehicle registered to that person.   

Perhaps the police up in northern New Hampshire have some kind of system to remotely moitor things, because there are not many police up there, so they are trying to automate the process.

Anyway, that's the only possibility I can think of.  Take it for what it's worth. 

Automatic license plate readers are forbidden by State law. RSA 236:130.

[MTPorcupine3]

My idea is to have a role playing seminar ... so we can more closely experience the real thing. Obviously in role playing, no one is going to experience fear or adrenaline or face any actual consequences...

A can't speak for anyone else here, but as for me the fear of making a fool of myself after having shown the appearance of knowing something (despite my lack of real experience) is enough to inspire fear and adrenaline in me!

[Daien]

I don't see what's wrong with not answering the question and remaining silent.  At worst you won't give the cop any more legitimate justification to intrude further in his "investigation," and at best it will telegraph that you know your rights and that he better make sure he can justify whatever he does next.

Thank you, mackler, for this reply. My original question was whether or not I can ask questions back in a non-inflammatory way, and now it's whether or not it's acceptable to simply not answer the question at all, especially as a passenger. It's not my nature to be confrontational, and yet I also no longer wish to be, as Russell aptly put it, subservient to the process.

[www]

why did he ask me for my ID, and could I have refused to show it to him?

If you are in a vehicle they can ask for your id for the purpose of establishing ownership of the vehicle, so I do not see any reason for requiring it if that has already been established.

[Daien]

why did he ask me for my ID, and could I have refused to show it to him?

If you are in a vehicle they can ask for your id for the purpose of establishing ownership of the vehicle, so I do not see any reason for requiring it if that has already been established.

Thank you.

[MTPorcupine3]

Here's a question for everyone. When I was sitting in the passenger seat with the door open, and my feet on the ground outside, the second cop asked me "Which of you has been drinking tonight?"

What would a non-compliant answer have been?

All joking, and discussion about the commercial term passenger aside:

-Officer, I recognise your contact. Before I consent to a detention can you please tell me the specific and articulable fact for this attempted detention?
-Hello officer, can you please tell me the probable cause for your contact?
-Officer, what did you see, hear, feel, taste or smell that gave you a reasonable suspicion that either of his has been drinking?
-Officer, before I answer any question, can you please tell me your name and identify yourself? (name and identity are not the same).
-Is this a Constitutional stop/contact?
-Hello officer, why do you think you need to talk to me? Do you have a reasonable suspicion that I have committed or am about to commit a crime?
-Thank you for asking, officer, but I do not consent to any search seizure, interrogation or detention. May I terminate this contact?

If you can't remember any of this or think of any intelligent, polite, deflecting question: Silence.

If he persists or gives you a hard time: I do not consent to any search, seizure, interrogation or detention. May I terminate this contact now? or simply: Am I under arrest? May I terminate this contact now?

[Mike Barskey]

A can't speak for anyone else here, but as for me the fear of making a fool of myself after having shown the appearance of knowing something (despite my lack of real experience) is enough to inspire fear and adrenaline in me!

That's great. That's true for me, too. I have stage fright (in varying degrees depending on context), so having friends watch me try to react well will indeed be stressful. Yet knowing that everyone there will be taking their turn, and everyone there will have the sam purpose of getting better (in their own definition of "better") at it, will make it acceptable and "do-able."

I hope you'll be interested in participating!

[Mike Barskey]

All joking, and discussion about the commercial term passenger aside:

-Officer, I recognise your contact. Before I consent to a detention can you please tell me the specific and articulable fact for this attempted detention?
-Hello officer, can you please tell me the probable cause for your contact?
-Officer, what did you see, hear, feel, taste or smell that gave you a reasonable suspicion that either of his has been drinking?
-Officer, before I answer any question, can you please tell me your name and identify yourself? (name and identity are not the same).
-Is this a Constitutional stop/contact?
-Hello officer, why do you think you need to talk to me? Do you have a reasonable suspicion that I have committed or am about to commit a crime?
-Thank you for asking, officer, but I do not consent to any search seizure, interrogation or detention. May I terminate this contact?

If you can't remember any of this or think of any intelligent, polite, deflecting question: Silence.

If he persists or gives you a hard time: I do not consent to any search, seizure, interrogation or detention. May I terminate this contact now? or simply: Am I under arrest? May I terminate this contact now?

Those sound like fantastic responses! Now, of course, I must remember to use them when under stress and duress. Of course, role-playing and practice will help.

[MTPorcupine3]

Anyway, he asked me if I was in a particular town ... it was the usual cop kind of question... you know... asking where I had been to establish facts or whatever.   Thing is.... I wasn't anywhere near that town for many hours, and that town was like 50 miles away.  I had visited it in the morning, and it was now nighttime and I was coming from a completely different direction.   There is no way he could possibly have known I was in that town...   

A good reason not to get caught up in a discussion in the first place. You never know how you might get tripped up, even if you're telling the truth.

I had a similar experience July 3rd 2004 in Montana when returning to Missoula after a 11 month hiatus in California. I had my trailer in tow, and was just completing a month-long farm-hopping friend-visiting trip back to Missoula from Sacramento. I got stopped after midnight because my tail lights had just died. When the cop asked me where I was coming from, I told him the truth: That I had just visited friends in Wasthington. I didn't want to get into details about my ten months in Sacramento, my slow trip home, the fact that I'd brought everything with me to Sac because I didn't know where I was going after that, etc., etc. But my response only triggered another question: If I was visiting friends in Washington, what was I doing with a friggin' 5'X8' trailer? This could have really gotten out of hand, like hitting a tar baby.

Fortunately, the cop's simple question was: "What's in the trailer?"

My simple response was: "My private affairs."

Thankfully, that was good enough for him, and I was on my way with a warning, and instructions to leave my hazard lights on for the remaining hour of my drive and to get those tail lights fixed. I say thankfully not because I had anything to hide, but because I wanted to be on my way, not subjected to a Terry search.

Possible answer to any question such as where are you coming from or where you are going: "Thank you for asking officer, but I'm really not interested in discussing my private affairs. May I go now?" Polite, non confrontational, deflecting, dismissing yourself.

[MTPorcupine3]

the question answer:
"Are you looking for a drink?"
"have you been drinking?"
"are you under the influence of DD coffee?"

or
"I have been drinking..... water."

I hope I'm correct in assuming that these suggestions are jokes and not meant to be taken seriously. 

My sentiment exactly. And while we're on jokes, why not my favourite for this situation:

"Me drinking? I haven't been drinking. You two must be drinking!"

[MTPorcupine3]

I hope you'll be interested in participating!

Can I participate in proxy? Kidding aside, I'll be happy to participate after my return to the Shire in spring.

[MTPorcupine3]

why did he ask me for my ID, and could I have refused to show it to him?

If you are in a vehicle they can ask for your id for the purpose of establishing ownership of the vehicle, so I do not see any reason for requiring it if that has already been established.

Answer to part one: Cops are always going to ask for ID, just as anglers are always going to throw their line in the water, and for the same reason: They're fishing! No line in the water, no fish.

Answer to part two: Trick question. There is a difference between refusing and not consenting. Learn the difference and don't let yourself be in a position of being accused of refusing.

As a rule, I would not consent to identifying myself unless convinced that I was required to or that I would be subjected to arrest or bodily harm otherwise. And why not ask? "Am I required to show ID? What law binds me to such an obligation? What happens if I don't?"

The problem in this case is that the officer has already established that a "crime" or infraction has taken place. The guest ["passenger"] volunteered the fact that there was an open container in the car. Once this line is crossed, there is "probably cause", and not consenting to the request for ID is only asking for (more) trouble.

[Dan]

I have on two occasions remembered to at least repsond to every request with: Am I required to?

Here's the thing, though.  They have in my experience always replied: "Yes".  Even when asked for my Social Security Number, a question I put extra emphasis on my automatic repsonse: "Am I required to?".

So what to do in this situation when they answer "yes"?  I talked to Brian about it today, and I hold my stance that the only thing you CAN do is comply, and accept the fact that without a recording of the discussion, you are just wasting your time.  *grumble*  the other alternative, not complying, only leads to escalated force.