Mutual Aid Society

[fourthgeek]

Could we use a barter (tax-free) system of exchanging services and goods?

Fourthgeek buys 10 pounds of beef from FSP-Rebel using his barter-card, costing him 30 barter-points. Fourthgeek has 20 barter-points on his card, and now owes the bartering society 10 barter-points (or an equivalent amount of dollars/gold?)

In return, FSP-Rebel gains 30 barter-points on his own database entry.

Sticking with a monetarist policy, the total number of barter points would slowly increase as our bartering economy grows.

This could be a reliable way to start our own independent economy/currency, as well, in the case that bad shit (tm) goes down.

[Pat McCotter]

Could we use a barter (tax-free) system of exchanging services and goods?

Fourthgeek buys 10 pounds of beef from FSP-Rebel using his barter-card, costing him 30 barter-points. Fourthgeek has 20 barter-points on his card, and now owes the bartering society 10 barter-points (or an equivalent amount of dollars/gold?)

In return, FSP-Rebel gains 30 barter-points on his own database entry.

Sticking with a monetarist policy, the total number of barter points would slowly increase as our bartering economy grows.

This could be a reliable way to start our own independent economy/currency, as well, in the case that bad shit (tm) goes down.

Sorry but the Infernal Revenue Service wants its due, even if you barter.


Topic 420 - Bartering Income

Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber doing repair work for a dentist in exchange for dental services. The fair market value of goods and services exchanged must be included in the income of both parties.

Income from bartering is taxable in the year in which you receive the goods or services. Generally, you report this income on Form 1040, Schedule C (PDF), Profit or Loss from Business. If you failed to report bartering income on returns you have already filed, you should correct this by filing an amended return, Form 1040X (PDF), for each year involved. For information on amended returns, refer to Topic 308.

A barter exchange is any person or organization with members or clients that contract with each other (or with the barter exchange) to jointly trade or barter property or services. The term does not include arrangements that provide solely for the informal exchange of similar services on a noncommercial basis.

The Internet has provided a medium for new growth in the bartering exchange industry. This growth prompts the following reminder: Barter exchanges are required to file Form 1099?B for all transactions unless certain exceptions are met. Refer to Barter Exchanges for additional information on this subject.

If you are in a business or trade, you may deduct any costs you incurred to perform the work that was bartered. If you exchanged property or services through a barter exchange, you should receive a Form 1099-B (PDF), Proceeds from Broker and Barter Exchange Transactions. The Form 1099?B or other statement generally will show the value of any cash, property, services, credits, or scrip you received from the exchange during the year. The IRS will also receive the same information.

If you receive income from bartering, you may be required to make estimated tax payments. Refer to Topic 355 for additional information.

Additional examples of bartering, and information on how to report the income, are described in Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income.

[Lex]

I'm interested.

[fourthgeek]

the IRS may want its cut, be we certainly won't have to pay other taxes (sales, business, etc.)

There's also what appears to be an untested loophole in the tax code:

"donations".

I've seen churches on TV demanding $50 donations, so that you may in return recieve a green prayer cloth (apparently required to enter heaven these days.)

[fourthgeek]

Easy.

For example, every woman that has ever existed wants me to bend her over a table, even though she may not know I exist. See?

No, quite honestly, we have to prepare for worst-case scenarios, as that is part of the whole idea of a mutual aid society. In the worst case scenario that the IRS did bug us, we'd need to have some sort of a legal defense, or minimize our losses.

But quite honestly, how you report your taxes is not the business of the mutual aid society or the barter exchange. That's your own business.

[cathleeninnh]

Be very careful! IRS doesn't ignore this. The requirements are spelled out and any organized bartering is investigated. Web based would be a huge red flag. File drawer records, less obvious until someone in the program decides to admit to it in an audit or something, then the program is busted.

Cathleen

[fourthgeek]

Again, I was intending to make this as legally sound as possible. If individual members don't follow the proper tax procedures, that is one thing. But as long as the system itself operates legally, they won't have a basis to shut us all down with.

Does anybody know the legality of accepting donations to avoid taxation? Do we just need to set up a nonprofit organization/church to do it?

[Marcy]

Count me in

[cathleeninnh]

For the system to operate legally, it must report transactions to the irs and provide irs forms to all participants.

Cathleen

[Russell Kanning]

What the government gang considers "legal" is every entity paying lots of taxes.

[cathleeninnh]

And if you try to better your position to pay less, they tighten the screws, I mean rules.

Cathleen

[FTL_Ian]

What the government gang considers "legal" is every entity paying lots of taxes.

Yep.  Law is just a bunch of words written down on paper by strangers.  I sure didn't consent to their rules.

[Lex]

Which Constitution are you talking about?

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

US Constitution says our government can lay and collect taxes.

[fourthgeek]

They needed the 16th amendment to collect income tax, though, so if we could just get rid of that..

[Lex]

They needed the 16th amendment to collect income tax, though, so if we could just get rid of that..

It already says that Congress can collect taxes (and the income tax is still a tax ;-) ) so the 16th amendment is redundant.