420 protests and the medical marijuana override

[Lloyd Danforth]

You've probably never before had a chance to vote for the kind of folks who will be running(and winning) in NH due to the FSP.
Takes 5 minutes to register, a little research at the NHLA on candidates and, another 5 minutes to vote.

Obama won the presidential vote in NH, I don't think your kind of folks have a chance in NH yet, due to the FSP.

Ron paul did not even get 25% of the vote last year in NH.

On top of that the voting machines don't record votes properly. So even if you do vote, your vote is not counted.

Video evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiiaBqwqkXs

I admit that due to the national political pendulum swing New Hampshire along with the rest of the US has lost ground on the Liberty front during the last few years.
In spite of this each year more 'Porcs' and liberty oriented get elected to state and local offices. The failure of the US gov  economy and it's demand for NH citizens for it's wars might make voters see the light and gains might be made.
Try it for a few years.  If it doesn't work go do what you were going to do.

[thinkliberty]

I admit that due to the national political pendulum swing New Hampshire along with the rest of the US has lost ground on the Liberty front during the last few years.
In spite of this each year more 'Porcs' and liberty oriented get elected to state and local offices. The failure of the US gov  economy and it's demand for NH citizens for it's wars might make voters see the light and gains might be made.
Try it for a few years.  If it doesn't work go do what you were going to do.

I tried that for 10 years, it got me nowhere.   How many years have you been trying?

How many people have heard the liberty message because of what Russell and the Keeniacs have done?

How many people hear about the liberty message from just voting and political rallies? Where the mainstream media kicks out people that might have a liberty message from debates and news coverage. How many more years will the media mock liberty minded politicians as fringe candidates?

Activism allows liberty minded people to get their message to the community. Voting does not.   

Good luck trying to change things by purely voting for people like rocketman.

I will vote for a candidate that does civil disobedience. No civil disobedience -- no vote.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I tried that for 10 years, it got me nowhere.   How many years have you been trying?

More. But, you may have heard of the Free State Project.  A plan to concentrate liberty loving people in a small state and do everything they can to make it a place where government is reduced a minimum.  Give it a chance.

How many people have heard the liberty message because of what Russell and the Keeniacs have done?

Lots.  What has changed due to what they have done?

How many people hear about the liberty message from just voting and political rallies? Where the mainstream media kicks out people that might have a liberty message from debates and news coverage. How many more years will the media mock liberty minded politicians as fringe candidates?

I'm only talking about NH.  Do you live here? We should be able to overcome local media.

Activism allows liberty minded people to get their message to the community. Voting does not.

Again.  How long for any actual, change? 

Good luck trying to change things by purely voting for people like rocketman.

Way to go with paying attention.  I support both CD and trying to put the right people in office.

I will vote for a candidate that does civil disobedience. No civil disobedience -- no vote.

Well....you sound kind of young. You'll get to live under the present conditions longer than I will.

[AntonLee]

You've probably never before had a chance to vote for the kind of folks who will be running(and winning) in NH due to the FSP.
Takes 5 minutes to register, a little research at the NHLA on candidates and, another 5 minutes to vote.

never said I wouldn't once I'm in the Shire.  I just find it icky and stupid for the most part.  Once I'm in NH I'll give it another chance.

Ya got the Icky part right.  If in say, 20 years it definately doesn't seem to be working, you can call it stupid and go piss on my grave.

nah, I"ll just put a boombox playing johnny cash and I'll pour one blueberry soda out for my homey

[thinkliberty]

How many people have heard the liberty message because of what Russell and the Keeniacs have done?

Lots.  What has changed due to what they have done?

From what I have read on these forums a lot of people have moved to NH because of it.

I'll try voting when the majority of the people in NH are liberty minded, but until then politics is a waste of time, money and energy.

If the money liberty voters in NH spent on ron paul would have gone to activism instead of a politician. That money would still have momentum.  Because it went to a politician (who had no chance of winning)  that momentum and money died with the election. 

Until you can free the minds of people watching the mainstream media you have no chance of making  the government less violent.  You can't do that without civil disobedience.

Purely political rallies like the "tea parties" and easily mocked by the mainstream media, you get nowhere with it. 

[dalebert]

If in say, 20 years it definately doesn't seem to be working, you can call it stupid and go piss on my grave.

I already told you, Lloyd, we're going to freeze your head and later use advanced computing and nanotechnology to resurrect your consciousness in an android body that's indistinguishable from a human body, aside from being far superior. It will make Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime look like a pussy.

[muni]

Long thread, read most of it. Rocketman convinced me and he has my support.

[anthonybpugh]

No.  I am not making a jest.  Just trying to make a serious point in a more humorous manner.

I'm essentially seeing some people acting like jerks and hiding being principles.  They are acting like rigid fanatics who would rather spend all their time sniping at other people.  They are right and they will not yield one inch. 

Talk about peace.  Talk about creating a better more peaceful society yet you will not do some of the basic simple things required to make peace with people you know.   Talk about rising above what's come before and yet you act like a bunch of fucking children.   

Both sides are entrenched and "hiding behind principles". We don't have to agree to have peace. We don't have to be friends to have peace. We just have to stop fighting each other. You can curse at the heavens that the planets don't circle the sun the way you want them to but your rage isn't going to change their orbit. It's just feeding back into your own frustration. At some point we have to have the wisdom to let go of what (or whom) we can't control or we're just tormenting ourselves. There's not much new to be said. I'm sure some future event will spark yet another debate and maybe new experiences will give people something new to think about and maybe some people will eventually change their points of view, but this horse has been beaten to death. After a while it quickly becomes obvious that the debate is just more of the same points being repeated with increasing fervor. It's going nowhere. It's time to let go of it. I, for one, have better things to devote my attention to and I'm sure you and Matt do as well.

Of course I have nothing better to do.  There is nothing on except for reruns.  People becoming entrenched and hiding behind principles is something that will happen frequently in a movement like this.  It seems as if what's driving this now is more to do with emotion and ego instead of principle.  Principle is just the post-hoc defense. 

[AntonLee]

compromise your principles, compromise your movement.

[Lloyd Danforth]

If in say, 20 years it definately doesn't seem to be working, you can call it stupid and go piss on my grave.

I already told you, Lloyd, we're going to freeze your head and later use advanced computing and nanotechnology to resurrect your consciousness in an android body that's indistinguishable from a human body, aside from being far superior. It will make Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime look like a pussy.

I think that you could find a better consciousness to waste the technology with.

[dalebert]

I already told you, Lloyd, we're going to freeze your head and later use advanced computing and nanotechnology to resurrect your consciousness in an android body that's indistinguishable from a human body, aside from being far superior. It will make Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime look like a pussy.

I think that you could find a better consciousness to waste the technology with.

No way. We need your wisdom. I told you, we're going to create a virtual libertarian city in the new matrix called Lloydville.

[CJS]

I am not in NH putting any thing on the line so I don't post often , hope no one minds me butting in here .

I wrote a long screed to add to this thread.  It was a heartbreaking work of staggering genius.     Then I thought, aw, fuck it.  No one's listening anyway.

That is a shame , the back ad fourth here and in other forums is all myself and others have to help our personal "evolution" . The time I have spent in this forum especially has made me change my mind on some of my oldest core values . Keep in mind how many lurkers there are hanging around here .. I have seen more the 80 at times , speak up we are paying attention.

  For instance , I see Matts point .. though I don't agree with the violent way he stated his feelings . Working with in the system must happen .... and to be honest.... IMO those who drop out of the political process do the movement a grave disservice .. every vote counts ..but if the "4:20" movement gets big enough it will force the state hand . It is a freaking plant after all . CD is just as important if not more than in the system activism

25%? LOL, He didnt even get 9%. A whopping 8% of liberty loving New Hampsherites voted for Dr Paul in the primary.

Independent candidates don't have to win .. they just need to get enough voted to make the two party system scared  of them  . I think 8% of any population saying no more of this crap is amazing .. at least where I am .

[Friday]

I am not in NH putting any thing on the line so I don't post often , hope no one minds me butting in here .

I wrote a long screed to add to this thread.  It was a heartbreaking work of staggering genius.     Then I thought, aw, fuck it.  No one's listening anyway.

That is a shame , the back ad fourth here and in other forums is all myself and others have to help our personal "evolution" . The time I have spent in this forum especially has made me change my mind on some of my oldest core values . Keep in mind how many lurkers there are hanging around here .. I have seen more the 80 at times , speak up we are paying attention.

Hmmm, well, when you put it that way...  I didn't save my original post.  In all honesty, I can't choose a side in this debate, because I see both positives and negatives on each side.

I originally thought the 4:20 events were silly, and agreed with the point that Matt made in his Union Leader article that it's a poor way to try to sway public opinion.  By the way, it seems that several people have misread that article.  It doesn't say Matt is opposed to public pot smoking; it doesn't say he thinks pot should be kept away from children.  It says he believes it's a poor way to persuade the general public, and that a majority of Americans support some sort of legislation to keep certain substances away from children (I don't know if that's true or not).  However, based on what I've read on a few forums, I'm starting to think I may once again be wrong about the way radical CD is interpreted by the public.  The participants keep saying the response they're getting is overwhelmingly positive.  Then again, we should all keep in mind that most people fear confrontation and if they disagree with what you're doing, they're not necessarily going to say that to your face.  So... hell if I know.   

I have strong doubts about the long-term benefit of HB648.  When the effort by NHCommonSense to decriminalize pot failed a couple of years ago, I don't think that the appropriate course of action was to change direction, drop all mention of the fact that we (by "we" I mean the majority of the Porcupine community) support decrim, and instead focus exclusively on medical mj.  That's not to say there's anything wrong with legalizing medical mj; of course there isn't.  But I worry that it might be heading in the wrong direction.  If one fights hard to give only seriously sick people the legal right to smoke mj, doesn't that imply that one doesn't believe everyone else has the right to as well?  And if one's goal is actually to decriminalize mj for everyone, isn't it a bit disingenuous to say that one *only* supports it for sick people?

I think a lot of people have been disappointed that NH has turned so sharply left in the past few years.  But this is one area where that could actually be used by the politicos in the liberty movement to good effect.  Particularly now that Mass has pushed the envelope by making the penalties for mj so low, I really think it would be preferable to continue to push for all-out decrim rather than merely medical mj. 

All that said, I don't think there was anything wrong with Rocketman's original desire to request that his friends and acquaintances hold off on the 4:20 events for just a couple of weeks, so as to maximize the chances of HB648 succeeding.  Even if I had a strong interest in the 4:20 events (which I don't), if someone I've known since the day I helped him move into New Hampshire asked me to do something, as a favor, I would; it's not like I don't have the rest of my life to do 4:20 events.  Unfortunately, the original request was laced with so much hostility and namecalling, and was responded to with more hostility and namecalling.  And as has been pointed out, the 4:20 events are attended by people who don't hang out on this forum, so even if everyone who read the original request chose to hold off until after the 28th, the events might well still take place.

ramble ramble ramble

FWIW, I will be at Central CENTRAL intelligence on the 28th, conservatively dressed and not smoking a fatty, in hopes of getting HB648 passed.  I will also hold on to my NHCommonSense matchbooks and hope that, in the not too distant future, it will reembrace its original direction.

"Let's unclog our courts and free up police to focus on REAL crimes!  YOU choose what to put in your body - Not Politicians!  Sign the petition!" -- NHCommonSense   

[CJS]

TY 

[bigmike]

Monday the 12th a girl from NHU is coming to do interviews. Hopefully we have a good turnout.