Empty holster protest Jan 6th 9am to 11am

[Fluff and Stuff]

Maybe you should do your thing at a different place at a different time, but I guess the universe revolves around you and it's impossible for you to share different ideas at the same time, in your universe.

Clearly, Dan setup this event before 41mag talked about trying to disrupt it.  If Dan didn't setup the event, 41mag wouldn't have talked about trying to disrupt it.

I am not sure why you are trying to make this personal with me, but I have nothing against me.  Oh, and maybe you aren't trying to make this personal.  If so, my bad.

[thinkliberty]

Maybe you should do your thing at a different place at a different time, but I guess the universe revolves around you and it's impossible for you to share different ideas at the same time, in your universe.

Clearly, Dan setup this event before 41mag talked about trying to disrupt it.  If Dan didn't setup the event, 41mag wouldn't have talked about trying to disrupt it.

I am not sure why you are trying to make this personal with me, but I have nothing against me.  Oh, and maybe you aren't trying to make this personal.  If so, my bad.

I just think it's silly to tell people they can't go to the statehouse after statist thugs tell everyone the government is the only ones that get to have guns. You're telling people that you are the only ones that can tell the statist thugs that you are upset. I think that's pretty lame.

Nothing personal. I am just trying to make your ideas look bad, in hopes that you will change your mind. You can take it personal if you want, but if you still want to hold on to the idea that Dan is the only person that can express disappointment of the government at the statehouse on that date and time, I would just hope to agree to disagree to you.

[Tom Sawyer]

The thought of 41Mag being disruptive...

Disruptive is what the republican load-mouths were that gave wind to the sails of this ban.

Perhaps the "corrective criticism" should have been directed at them.

[mackler]

An open-holster protest, eh?  How obedient.  And I can see so many possibilities down this road.

When they tell you to move because they're taking your house away from you, then you can have a "homeless" protest where you start living outside with no shelter.

And when they tell you to turn in all your money, you can have a "poverty" protest, where you live without the money that their rule says you're not allowed to have.

If you're an activist who likes protesting rules by obeying them, this plan will definitely be a very effective way to say publicly to those sneaky politicians, "hey, I might comply with your every demand, but I don't have to like it!"

[KBCraig]

It's possible to honor the spirit of what Dan is planning (showing an empty holster) without doing anything to sacrifice defensive readiness. If you get my drift.

If you wanted, you could even point out the uselessness of the ban by holding a sign that says

UNARMED
----
OR AM I?
----
WHO KNOWS?

[Lloyd Danforth]

Eventually, they will try to add Metal Detectors.

[Friday]

I posted this also on the Free Keene forum:

To me it's a question of strategy vs. tactics. Now I love civil disobedience; it's a powerful tactic. But in the activism I've seen, there has often been a lack of strategy. Strategy, as I'm using it here, means having a specific goal and choosing tactics which will advance that goal.

It seems that sometimes, some activists want to commit civil disobedience for its own sake, rather than because it's the best way to make a change. A careful consideration of strategy, and of determining exactly what change is desired, might indicate that tactics other than civil disobedience would be most effective at making the change.

Given that accomplishing a particular goal might require a variety of tactics to be most effective, I'm not willing to take "in the system" political activism off the table. At the same time I'm not willing to take "outside the system" activism off the table. After watching various bits of activism fail to achieve the desired results over the last couple of years, I'm convinced that if we are going to get results, people who prefer "outside the system" activism need to select their tactics much more carefully, and coordinate more closely with those who prefer "inside the system" activism. There is, I believe, a time and place for both, depending on what the overall goal is.

  well said.

[Sam A. Robrin]

What if six people entered the building with toy guns in their holsters--followed by more than six with real ones?  Like "Jokers and Tokers," but--I don't know--"Jackers and Packers"?
Unfortunately, this would require some of that organization of which Error spoke, and I'm always treated like Hitler when I suggest it . . .

[Jim Johnson]

Maybe Itsee's group would get more attention if they walked around wearing just their empty holsters.

Just a thought... but now the imagery is ruining my day. 

[41mag]

The thought of 41Mag being disruptive...

I'll leave that to those more qualified.   

I wasn't really planning on going, just wondering what their penalties would be for something like this?

Clearly, Dan setup this event before 41mag talked about trying to disrupt it.  If Dan didn't setup the event, 41mag wouldn't have talked about trying to disrupt it.

???  I didn't know I was planning anything.  Can someone fill me in on this nefarious plan?   

[Friday]

I'm trying to dig up Itse's full original email, because what's posted at the start of this thread is not the whole thing.  He wasn't suggesting an empty holster protest and then, if (when) it has no effect, crying and going home.  He was suggesting that this would be the first step, and, if I recall correctly, civil disobedience would be the next step. 

This makes sense to me.  If the goal is to communicate with a bunch of politicians, we should do so in a way that maximizes the odds that they will understand.  Right or wrong, a lot of people's brains shut down on the subject of guns, and they will feel frightened, threatened and/or bullied by a group of people showing up and walking into the building with guns.

Honestly, I don't think even the most political of the politicos is suggesting taking this lying down.

By the way, I should probably mention that I got elected to the Board of the NHLA when I wasn't paying attention.  Hope we can still be friends.   

[thinkliberty]

What if six people entered the building with toy guns in their holsters--followed by more than six with real ones?  Like "Jokers and Tokers," but--I don't know--"Jackers and Packers"?
Unfortunately, this would require some of that organization of which Error spoke, and I'm always treated like Hitler when I suggest it . . .

This is the way I see the "in the system" people on this protest:

Politicos tell everyone no guns -> empty holster people are mad for them saying no guns-> tell everyone else no guns just like the people they are mad at.

The "in the system" people are going to tell the politicos not to do what they just did and will support politicos state sponsored violence against anyone doing anything outside of the system.

Politicos and "out of the system" people laugh at empty holster people for being hypocrites. 

Politicos agree that if the empty holster people can tell people no guns at the state house, they can as well. But they also have cops with guns to force everyone to accept their way through state sponsored violence. They are validated by the "in the system" people.

"In the system" people will blame someone with a gun for ruining freedom for everyone else and liberty is lost, because they fell in to the politicos trap.

It's too bad the "in the system" people can't find a way to defend free people being free.  I think NH CLOG guys have the best plan of marrying in and out of the system activism. 

Hopefully someone can come up with a plan that the "in the system" people and the "out of the system" people can work together on. I don't see how "the system" can be worked with, maybe someone that understands "the system" better than me can figure it out.

I think "the system" is broken beyond repair and it should be done away with.

[Tom Sawyer]

???  I didn't know I was planning anything.  Can someone fill me in on this nefarious plan?   

Hey Dude, they are on to you... they know you are the master-mind behind the entire organization. 

Seriously, the over-reaction to people asking about carrying is a bit much. Error posted a response on Free Keene to what Ian said, and somehow, everyone else is lumped into the same "group".

The need to categorize people is a problem for me... I don't fit any one description... and is the main reason I have given up caring to support people that can't see that I was an ally until I was left behind for participating in the underground.

[Jim Johnson]

By the way, I should probably mention that I got elected to the Board of the NHLA when I wasn't paying attention.  Hope we can still be friends.   

Every body should have a friend that doesn't mind being snuck up on.   

[Kat Kanning]

By the way, I should probably mention that I got elected to the Board of the NHLA when I wasn't paying attention.  Hope we can still be friends.   

No way.  These will be the last words I speak to you.  No way we can be friends now.