Union Leader won't print announcement for gay wedding

[Russell Kanning]

I support their decision.
I myself would also not attend a gay wedding. I don't want to encourage the behavior.

Can someone confirm or deny whether this is also the policy of the Peaceful Assembly Church, i.e. with regard to which marriages they would allow to happen there?  I feel confident that I saw a statement somewhere to that effect and thought it was this thread but I'm not seeing it now.  I wonder if I'm mistaken.

I am not sure.
So far no marriages have taken place in the pac.
You would have to ask john directly, since he might not read this thread. I would not be surprised with any answer from john.

[John]

I support their decision.
I myself would also not attend a gay wedding. I don't want to encourage the behavior.

Can someone confirm or deny whether this is also the policy of the Peaceful Assembly Church, i.e. with regard to which marriages they would allow to happen there?  I feel confident that I saw a statement somewhere to that effect and thought it was this thread but I'm not seeing it now.  I wonder if I'm mistaken.

I was PMed and asked to come over to this thread to respond to the post directly above. I'm happy to respond. Thanks for inviting me over. Please pardon me if I'm a bit long winded.

Peaceful Assembly Church has, from it's inception, had a most basic and general policy intended to be as inclusive of all Peaceful people as possible, while at the very same time attempting to ensure that if "a little old lady" or a "young mother and her children" or a "grandmother with her grandchildren" were to come walking in to one of our events they would all be happy to be here. And you know what: Its not that hard to do. We have had events ranging from very small study groups, to the 3rd Annual Grafton Apple Festival, to the Liberty Scholarship Fund Fundraiser Dinner, to Ivy's Thanksgiving Day Family Get Together; and we have had zero problems.
Of all the people ever invited to any of our events only two were real potential problems and in both cases I informed the person who had invited them of the potential problems, and I learned that both invitees was actually quite unlikely to want to come. In the first case we agreed that if the person responded, we would need to un-invite. In the second case, the invitee was also a person who is not know for a lot of self control, yet in that case we decided that if the person was wanting to come we would simply need to talk about this issue in advance.
So the bottom line is that whenever there is any potential event of any kind here at the church we start asking lots of questions to see if fits our "family friendly" atmosphere.
With regaurd to weddings: One kind of wedding which seems not particularly family friendly is a government wedding, so that kind would have the hardest time getting approval. After that, things start getting easier.
Each potential event is handled individually.
I'm not sure what or where you might have seen anything written, by I usually write things like: "Peaceful Assembly Church is open to all Peaceful people who are respectful and mindful that this is a church and not a fraternity house nor a club house. We ask that people use common courtesy and that they be responsible for themselves while on church property."

I hope that helps.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I assumed John would let anyone get married in his church as long as they would agree to counseling, giving him a chance to talk them out of it.

[KBCraig]

I think that's very well said, John.

[dalebert]

I'm not sure what or where you might have seen anything written, by I usually write things like: "Peaceful Assembly Church is open to all Peaceful people who are respectful and mindful that this is a church and not a fraternity house nor a club house. We ask that people use common courtesy and that they be responsible for themselves while on church property."

I'm thinking it must have been an overheard rumor that got re-written in my memory as something I must have read.  Glad to officially put that rumor to rest.  Thanx.

[John]

an overheard rumor that got re-written in my memory as something I must have read.  Glad to officially put that rumor to rest.  Thanx.

So, in fairness to some possible unwritten comments and their possible sources: Very, very soon after buying the church, one guy - almost immediately - said something like, "Oh you got a church, now we can have [some kind???of] marrages!" and my mind just shut closed and it didn't even all register, because - quite frankly - I was not interested in what seemed like his quick attempt to steer the church in some direction of his choosing.
Not even a polite congratulations first ... just jumping right up and telling someone else what would be the best use for their property - it seemed. We all know the type. (I'm beginning to call some of our guys the "Undiagnosed Asbergers Society.")
So with all that, and several other people having nice/interesting (partying type) ideas, but not ideas we are wanting for Peaceful Assembly Church, I began to settle into a rather more conservative position than I otherwise might have. And, I would even regularly tell people that it felt like I was being pushed into a very conservative corner, and that I was going to have to be OK with that and I would have to get comfortable there until people stop pushing. I'd say, "When the pushing stops, then maybe I'll be able to relax a bit again." I still tell people the same now. That's partly where language such as "not a club house" and "not a fraternity" comes from.

My most colorful comments about when "the Asburger Boys" are being pushy, are ones I might still have to use occasionally. Maybe its my way of pushing back just a bit. Perhaps some of those comments are grist for the rumor-mill. I'll not reduse them to writing right here right now.

[dalebert]

My most colorful comments about when "the Asburger Boys" are being pushy, are ones I might still have to use occasionally. Maybe its my way of pushing back just a bit. Perhaps some of those comments are grist for the rumor-mill. I'll not reduse them to writing right here right now.

...??? Now I'm confused again.  I don't understand what fraternities or club houses have to do with gay weddings.  I guess (?) that maybe you were just trying to explain how the rumor started and don't want to get into the gory details around all the drama, which I can completely understand.  But I just re-read your first response and you don't seem to ever answer the question.  It was a very pleasant-sounding politician-style answer avoiding any clear stance that might be off-putting to one group or another.

I hope you don't find it "pushy" that I want a clear answer about something very specific.  I don't want to presume anything about how you intend to run your church, trying to decipher the long and ambiguous language in the two posts above.  And this is a matter of substance to others and myself.  It impacts whether I want to support your church at a time when you're becoming more public, inviting people to events there and asking for that support.  A clear answer about this is not an unreasonable request.

If your criteria for any event is ensuring that [insert all manner of potentially socially conservative people here] is happy if they walked in on an event, then that's basically a ban on gay weddings no matter how proper and polite the ceremony may be.  It's your property and I'm not at all implying you don't have the right to discriminate, of course.  Just suggesting honesty and openness is the best policy as it's definitely an issue that matters to a lot of people.

I'm not asking you to sign a blank check.  Let's say some same-sex couple that you know and have no personal issues with is thinking of having their wedding there.  They seem polite, respectful of others, etc.  But they're a same-sex couple.  Should they have any reason to expect discrimination on that basis alone?  Would you treat them differently than an opposite sex couple in otherwise extremely similar circumstances?

Is there anything more I can do to clarify my question so that you can be comfortable giving me a solid "yes" or "no" answer?  It seems it would do a lot to quiet the rumor mills.

[Kat Kanning]

What drama?

[cathleeninnh]

I am a bit concerned about John's declaration that "government weddings" aren't acceptable. Governments don't get married; governments don't force weddings. Some individuals seek government sanction of their marriage. Just like someone hired to do a job, may decide to pay tax on that income. Are those workers not acceptable to this church? Are our choices up for approval before we enter? Doesn't sound very Christian.

Cathleen

[MaineShark]

I am a bit concerned about John's declaration that "government weddings" aren't acceptable. Governments don't get married; governments don't force weddings. Some individuals seek government sanction of their marriage. Just like someone hired to do a job, may decide to pay tax on that income. Are those workers not acceptable to this church? Are our choices up for approval before we enter? Doesn't sound very Christian.

I would presume that they could have their wedding at the PAC, then go and get a license from the State, if they wanted.  I doubt John could stop them if they did, anyway.

But if they had a government wedding at the PAC, the officiant would be legally required to sign government paperwork.  I do doubt that John is willing to do that, and he might not even want it being done on the premises.

Similarly, if I hire someone, he can pay taxes or not.  But I absolutely will not withhold for him.  He can do whatever he likes, after he leaves work, but I will not be a tax collector, even if he asks me to.

Joe

[Lloyd Danforth]

Nobody has to know if folks have permission from the state, or not, to have the ceremony.

[dalebert]

Peaceful Assembly Church has, from it's inception, had a most basic and general policy intended to be as inclusive of all Peaceful people as possible, while at the very same time attempting to ensure that if "a little old lady" or a "young mother and her children" or a "grandmother with her grandchildren" were to come walking in to one of our events they would all be happy to be here.

On a lighter note, and at the risk of reading too much into it before John has a chance to expound, this explanation inspires some pretty amusing scenarios in my over-active imagination.  I picture some little blue-haired old lady who's hobby is to brazenly crash weddings she hasn't been invited to... with her impressionable young grandchildren in tow, of course.  She inadvertently finds herself and the kids at the wedding of two strangers, the union of whom she does not approve, e.g. two men, two women, a black man and a white woman, a Protestant and a Catholic, a member of high society and a peasant, two people with an age difference exceeding some arbitrary number in her mind, etc.  She gasps melodramatically and spouts "Well, I never!"  And then Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, who is in many of my imaginary scenarios purely for sarcastic commentary says "Yeah, and with that hair and outfit, you never will."

[dalebert]

What drama?

Excellent question.  John is being really vague so I have no idea.  I'm speculating wildly as I am prone to do when I have so little to go on.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I would like to see John expound on this myself.  I assumed that  as long as "By the power vested in me by the state of New Hampshire" wasn't uttered, he would allow any wedding.
I'm thinking just as  witnessing a gay wedding would upset most little old ladies and force the mother or grandmother into having to explain some stuff to the children, most of the government hating conversation that seems to occur whenever two or more of us are together, would have the same effect.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I missed the question mark in Kat's post and assumed it was a statement