Who wants to endlessly debate a little ?

[CJS]

 I stopped posting in  a thread where the direction had taken a turn away from peaceful solutions and became a character assignation fight (IMHO).

Russell and John both engaged me in their posts and I wanted to respond but decided that the OP was far to violent for me to want to have any contact at all with.... even in cyberland.

 
You have to play the game and the bureaucrats make the rules .

why do you have to play their game and by their rules?

 
You have to play the game and the bureaucrats make the rules .

why do you have to play their game and by their rules?

  Here we are at one of my stumbling blocks in the pursuit of real liberty. I think there is no way to have this discussion in forum setting with out it ending  up at "who will build the roads"  debate . I will have to wait till I get there to talk about how society polices its self with no courts or cops , don't get me wrong the concept is sexy as hell for me I just can't fully wrap my mind around it.

I wish NHFREE still had the chat box .. but if it was still up and running Luke the village idiot would probably still be in it . I am on yahoo chat if any one wants to chat in real time .

Since we are in the Civil Disobedience section discussing how to use guns, cops, lawyers, and prosecutors – ad nauseam – why not throw this in as well?

I don't want to wait until later to have the conversation. I think that getting government off the roads should be our first priority. The roads are the place were they abuse more people, more often, than any other place. I say, GET THE GOVERNMENT OFF THE ROADS FIRST!

"King's highways" no more.

The Patriot- "This is the kings highway"

 
I wonder who would be interested in a CIVIL discussion how peaceful people can deal with this kind of trouble in today's environment .

   Anyone?

[CJS]

I'll start

To respond to Russell .. what I was saying is that we have no other real choice today. If some one harasses me or even threatens me with out an obvious " defend myself or die" situation I am forced to seek the help of law enforcement .  I have never called the police for help in my life , but if a neighbor was threatening my wife I see no alternative right now. That being said I think in a free society .. in less populated places ostracism would be a valuable and effective tool , but I do not see it having much effect with the problem the OP of that thread was having.

To respond to John .. I didn't continue with my questions in that thread because I  the OP started looking like a "gun polisher' to me and I have already decided that I do not want to associate with people who are longing for the day the "shit hits the fan" and also the back and forth between a couple of posters was  very uncivil .

[littlehawk]

I think you'd most likely be dead if you called the cops to come rescue you. They would be there much later  to trace out your dead body but as afar as them storming to the scene in seconds or minutes to save you, it just ain''t gonna happen. They could even come busting in with roid rage and start shooting up you wife, kids, dog and anything else that moved. Have you been reading the news of late? (and by "news", I mean REAL news, aka the truth)

I believe everyone has a right to choose. Do as you will. I avoid using cops at all costs as they only make bad situtions worse and harmless situations harmful. How many pigs on a regular basis are shooting people holding candy bars and cellphones? How many goons are tasering innocent 5 year old kids, 80 year old grannies and mentally retarded people? And how many oinkers are being busted for sex offense crimes, drug use, roid rage, wife beating and murder..not to mention the Bacon-boys high rate of CORRUPTION at all levels.

Call a cop, but you've been warned.

I'd rather call a friend.

[highline]

Here I am! 

May I just say, that I believe your trying to smear me the same way my former police chief did (and failed) is a pretty low thing to do.

[littlehawk]

I call them as I see them.

Oh yeah...and let us know when your really quit serving the Bacon.

[highline]

I call them as I see them.

Well, I was directing that at CJS.  My former police chief also called me a nazi.  Am I a nazi too?

Oh yeah...and let us know when your really quit serving the Bacon.

I know you think I'm still a cop...  that is amusing.

[CJS]

I am not and that accusation is cheap and easy . Puts my on the defensive and I have nothing to defend I repeated yours  and Ian's words ... nothing more nothing less.

I never used the word pedophile Mr Jarvis so do not put words in my mouth .

That's not my last name.  Apologies

Also keep your nambla bullshit to yourself . I recall you having some sort of dust up at your old job concerning a 15 year old girl. Care to enlighten your new friends about your proclivities ?

Really? 

I made the entirety of my termination hearing open to the public and about 100 people attended.  It also was videotaped..

IN the hearing, you'll hear my former police chief try to smear me by referencing text messaging I was doing with a 17 year old girl who I was friendly with who lived in the town where I worked.  You'll also hear that I text messaged many people in the town where I used to work INCLUDING a member of the board of selectmen who was hearing my appeal. 

I text(ed) people and made friends in the community.  So what?  Again . Your words .I do not remember the thread but you used the number 15 specifically

Again do not put words in my mouth ... I know it's hard for a cop ... I mean ex cop to not twist peoples words to their detriment .

I, and probably everyone else here, knows exactly what you were accusing Ian of....  and it is you who is trying to hide behind your words.
I do not need to accuse Ian or put words in his mouth. he does that regularly on free talk live. Also he has no problem keeping quiet about the activity of those in the free Keene club but if the same behavior was displayed by cops , judges or any other bureaucrat he would be screaming it to shame them . I would shame the bureaucrats as well as I could , I just would not allow those activists a free pass

I speak my mind about child exploitation just fine and if you think 11 Y/O is good to go I think you're a broken human being.

You're simply not comprehending what we're saying. 
I sure as hell do comprehend what your points are .. I just call people would agree to sex with an 11 or 12 year old absolutely broken. And I am not talking about high schoolers getting down in a car . That was very disingenuous of you to do that BTW

I made mention to two specific points and none of them involved a couple with the ages 15 and 17 so stop with the obfuscation .. you are a master of that BTW.....I know it and so do others.

You can attack me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that my argument (and Ian's) has always been that drawing a line, ANY line, in the sand leads to unintended consequences and ruined lives.

I will attack anyone who thinks the nambla mindset should be allowed , makes me sick personally . How about you tell me what a free society does about predators instead.

   The 26 Y/O who received nothing but support  from the majority of that forums members after getting pinched for trolling for 12 and 13 year old female children online. It is there , you posted in the thread if I remember correctly.

I think that conduct is reprehensible and unacceptable.

So you're flip flopping now? You supported the guy in the freekeene thread . I really don't want to go through that thread again

   Also that Ian feels 11 years old is fine for some one to experiment with older folk. Funny how many people who were abused as children become abusers them selves

Again, that's not what Ian says.

I have heard him say just that in his own voice on free talk live .

  I know one thing .. you and Ian are far in the minority. I also wish the people who have made the jump to liberty both literally and figuratively would explain how a stateless society would deal with people who though well into adulthood that hunger for 11 and 15 olds .

I have no problem being in the minority on any given issue.  I do have a problem with people trying to use emotion to sway a rather logical argument.

And I will not allow anyone to obfuscate the substance of my posts

[highline]

I am not and that accusation is cheap and easy . Puts my on the defensive and I have nothing to defend I repeated yours  and Ian's words ... nothing more nothing less.

Allow me to make myself very clear.  I think child abuse should be punished SEVERELY.  I've seen the unintended consequences of the status quo ruin peoples lives over trivial matters such as a girl lying about her age. 

These unintended consequences will continue so long as their is an arbitrary line in the sand saying YES or NO.

All I advocate is that the state have to prove in each instance that the victim of an assault was either too immature, too disabled, or too incapacitated to consent.

I think it would be very easy to prove that in the case of an 11-year old, don't you?

[CJS]

Also I will not respond to Ian in that other thread , make it easier for the mods to delete this if they find it to distasteful for their forum

@Ian . I have no need to put words in your mouth. You talk about this subject on freetalk live semi regularly. Funny that you are so short tempered with racists ( I am also ) but you are so very understanding of pedo's on your show.

[MaineShark]

CJS, you're making some serious accusations.  I think you need to substantiate them with hard facts, if you expect to be taken seriously.  I recall the thread you are referencing, and I don't recall reading what you claim was posted in it, so I'm not likely to take your claims seriously, unless you can refresh my memory with actual quotes that match what you claim was said.

Joe

[highline]

CJS, you're making some serious accusations.  I think you need to substantiate them with hard facts, if you expect to be taken seriously.  I recall the thread you are referencing, and I don't recall reading what you claim was posted in it, so I'm not likely to take your claims seriously, unless you can refresh my memory with actual quotes that match what you claim was said.

I too would love to see where I wrote that I supported anyone who victimized anyone.

I part ways with some of my voluntaryist friends in that I believe in stiff punishment of some other form in addition to restitution for harming other human beings, specifically children. 

I remember making the same arguments before that I am making now, and I recall a similar reception.  Just as advocating the legalization of drugs is not the same as supporting drug use, supporting a revamp of the statutory rape laws is not supporting the molestation of children.

[CJS]

    Joe you were active in that thread also and it was a real shock to me that you defended the 26 year old who for all intents and purposes described himself as a predator who felt he was the victim not the 12 and 13 year old girls he lusted after.  As far as some of the activist from Keene I am past being shocked by their acceptance of bad behavior with in their ranks . bad juju bud.

  I know child exploitation is serious. And so is protecting people who abuse children . I have not done anything but repeated their own words. I have not named anyone else but I could. I have no desire to slander the people who have moved and made real investment in their futures in New Hampshire. But what is good for the goose is good for the gander , why this massive and frankly dangerous double standard when it comes to the behavior of activists ?

As far as how this affects me personally when I move ... so be it . I will gladly accept being ostracized by people who want 11 year old to be able to consent to sex with adults. I stand by everything I have said and if you don't like me it is the real me you dislike .. not some polished image that must be protected to maintain some figurehead status.

Peace ,  Chris

@ Highline I will go and find that thread ... but when I do what are you going to do ? will you apologize for accusing me of mudslinging ?

[highline]

    I will gladly accept being ostracized by people who want 11 year old to be able to consent to sex with adults.

Sigh.

Look.  I don't want people to use heroin, but I want the drug war to end.  I don't want adults to molest children, but I want the unintended consequences of age-of-consent laws to cease.

Can you please understand that advocating one does not mean that you advocate the other?

@ Highline I will go and find that thread ... but when I do what are you going to do ? will you apologize for accusing me of mudslinging ?

I look forward to reading what I wrote.

[CJS]

 You know what . I promised my self I would never log in there again so I won't. and I supported freekeene monthly for a while , so I was not some angry statist with an agenda.

The thread was about a 26 year old male who felt he was victimized by LOE's for trying to get a hook up for sex with a 13 year old girl  online. I can't believe no one remembers that thread. I won't ever forget the support the guy got from so many people. I was one of the only ones who said he should be removed from polite society. And that is where I get lost as to how predators would be handles in a free and stateless society. It is about the only thing I can't wrap my mind around in regards to living free.

[AntonLee]

so you went and removed him from society?