Chalking reduction would be appropriate response to MPD's slight loosening-up

[Dave Ridley]

Couple thoughts...
Best I can tell, Manch PD did a decent job handling the protest-flavored public participation at city hall last night. This was in contrast to the arrest-fests that have occurred at similar situations at New London, CT and Keene.  Additionally, sympathetic personell in the city government have approached me to *request,* not demand, an end to the chalking of city buildings.  And there appear to have been no new provocations on their part since Saturday.   

These factors indicate that a conciliatory response would be appropriate. My suggestion would be that you stop chalking city/state buildings in Manchester at least in the absence of some new provocation.  Chalking public sidewalks....I can't imagine being against that, and continuing less controversial types of pressure is great.  But the building-chalking costs you some support anyway.

So what do you say to this suggestion:

Chalk-free buildings for a week or two, though general protest activity continues.
See if ManchCops respond with a conciliatory move or cooldown of their own
If they do, then we try and undertake another ameliorating gesture. 

[Jim Johnson]

Make sure you get it all down in writing first, from the Mayor and the Chief of Police, so you can point at a piece of paper in front of a judge and say, 'See, right here... it says right here...' after the police turn around and beat you senseless.

Cause other wise your acting like you're dealing with some sort of single minded monolith that acts in a mechanical, "if we do this, they''ll do that", fashion... which is greatly worthy of ridicule.

[Giggan]

I feel it's important that the groupthink aspect of this ordeal be exposed. When being booked, there was a suited bureaucrat who kept repeating how 'you guys came down here to stir up trouble' as a sort of justification for all of the arrests. The idea that the bureaucrats went to any individual (especially one not involved in chalking any buildings) and made a request to them shows how much of a collectivist game they think they are playing.

Individuals may feel justified in chalking the face of a building for a number of reasons. It's not an action I participate in myself, but I can't feel comfortable condemning it given the circumstances (a statist society).

Maybe the city alderman should offer to pull strings and have the charges dropped against the MPD 8 and all property returned. For that, I would be willing to agree to the people calling themselves the city of manchester not to personally chalk buildings. I wouldn't expect any conditions for or upon this agreement other than my word.

[Russell Kanning]

I will tell my chalking minions to stop when the mayor stops stealing from people.and the cops stop handcuffing people
but, ya know, those guys never listen to me anyhow

maybe Dada is middle ground between republican freestaters and those wacky anarchists (or whatever they are calling themselves this week) that the city can deal with. You can tell them that you would be willing to compromise on a few issues, but that you don't seem to have any control and just a little influence on the chalkers

maybe Free Manch's ambassador can head on down to city hall to list the rabbles demands

btw I love the caulk, long live the chalk

[Dave Ridley]

maybe one of the union leader commenters put it better than me when he said... at some point the liberty folk will figure out how to have a more effective and popular protest. and at that point they'll start winning, faster.    the chalk on the buildings doesn't seem to be outright hated by the people but it's pushing some of them away.   there may be a better approach, and obviously i'm experimenting with that....maybe others should too.

[Jim Johnson]

You've finally found something that pisses off the cops enough to make fools of them selves, generates public discussions, gets almost immediate official negotiations and won't get someone shot... and your going to give that up to make people, who aren't even your friends, happy.

They want you to stop being effective as well as affective.

[Tom Sawyer]

Trying to negotiate with the "authorities"... Dave's position sounds reasonable... if you are attempting to "fix" the system. What are the differences in goals and tactics between a republican and an anarchist?

Considering the cops still hold peoples property, seems they should be the ones to compromise.

Did you take out the gag to negotiate Dave? 

[tremendoustie]

You've finally found something that pisses off the cops enough to make fools of them selves, generates public discussions, gets almost immediate official negotiations and won't get someone shot... and your going to give that up to make people, who aren't even your friends, happy.

They want you to stop being effective as well as affective.

How about public unlicensed manicures in front of the MPD, etc? Chalking sends a confusing message, that fewer will support. Unless someone fully understands the aggression of taxes (and few do), it will seem to them like a legitimate property violation (i.e. chalking a private home would clearly be a real crime).

Protesting specific immoral laws in ways directly related to those laws sends a clear message, and one that is much more easily supported.

[Jim Johnson]

You've finally found something that pisses off the cops enough to make fools of them selves, generates public discussions, gets almost immediate official negotiations and won't get someone shot... and your going to give that up to make people, who aren't even your friends, happy.

They want you to stop being effective as well as affective.

How about public unlicensed manicures in front of the MPD, etc? Chalking sends a confusing message, that fewer will support. Unless someone fully understands the aggression of taxes (and few do), it will seem to them like a legitimate property violation (i.e. chalking a private home would clearly be a real crime).

Protesting specific immoral laws in ways directly related to those laws sends a clear message, and one that is much more easily supported.

So, what is it that you are going to do?

[tremendoustie]

So, what is it that you are going to do?

I'll speak out in favor of what I believe to be most effective tactics, both in person and online. I'll also work for liberty in ways that are both effective and fit my circumstances, skills, and interests.

You can ignore what I'm saying if you want. I'm just offering a suggestion, that I believe will greatly increase the effectiveness of this form of activism.

[Tom Sawyer]

The protest revolved around the MPD beating people and using excessive force... not sure what CD example would go along with that? The chalking got a response, got attention.


tremendoustie, Jim's response is a pretty standard one on the underground forum... lots of people have their ideas of the more perfect action... in the words of Russell Kanning, "You should do that."  Not to belittle your opinion, I too am somewhat unsure of the chalking the building's reception by the wider audience... but, compared to the heavy handing behavior I have witnessed in the past with the MPD, and the fact that I wasn't one of the people brave enough to stand up to them this time... I say bless the effort.

[Russell Kanning]

I agree with you guys.
I like the chalking of the thugs buildings.
I like Dada filming, pestering, questioning, and negotiating with the cops and such.

Since my end goal is to live in a society without thugs enforcing rules .... I will nonviolently oppose those guys.
Since i want to laugh and let others enjoy life, I will make fun of the cops and try not to tell the good guys and crazy activists to stop doing their stuph. i will also continue to watch ridleos and laugh at him in a costume or "gagged" by the establishment.

Ridley and the crazy 20 year old anarchists in Free Manch and Concord are forces for good changes.

[Fluff and Stuff]

Protesters can chalk police cars and the police building in Manchester to their heart's content.  If that is what you want to do, do it.  However, don't be surprised if the cops continue to arrest such protesters and continue to charge them with multiple offenses.  Also, don't be surprised if the vast majority of the public has a negative reaction to the chalking.

It's all really obvious, anyway.

Cop Block left Manchester so they likely won't be organizing a chalking of police stuff in Manchester for the next few days.  After that is Porcfest, so Cop Block likely won't be organizing a chalking of police stuff in Manchester during Porcfest.

[Russell Kanning]

I would be surprised if a vast majority of people have a problem with chalk on the cop shop.

[Dave Ridley]

<<How about public unlicensed manicures in front of the MPD, etc? Chalking sends a confusing message, that fewer will support.>>

What he said. You don't have to chalk to get arrested if it's an arrest you're after.  there are better ways to do it, surely each of us is creative enough to think of one.    Also, what's the peeve over negotiation?  Where would South Africa be without it?  And what negotiation are you talking about?   

Loosening up on a particular pressure point to reward an opponent for loosening up....that's not speech or discussion.  It's a time tested act of de-escalation.  It's one we would do well to get all our government opponents in the habit of.  We'll all likely need it later.