Ostracizing non-Fedbookers

[dalebert]

I posted this on the Shire Society Forum and just thought it deserved being copypasta here.

I just wanted to note that there's a social event happening today planned by and attended largely by Keeniacs that (unless I missed it) is not posted about here on the Shire Society Forum. I found out about it on Facebook. As far as I can tell, that's the only place it was posted about.

Think about this a little bit. You are effectively ostracizing anyone who has chosen not to use Facebook. People who have chosen not to use Facebook for whatever reason are very possibly ignorant of this event. I know this happens because it happened to me all the time when I tried to extract myself from Facebook. I ultimately gave up. I realize Facebook isn't the government itself, but there are analogies to be made.

I'm not saying stop using Fedbook. I'm saying try not to allow it to alter your behavior so significantly that you push out all market alternatives and centralize all of your planning and connections and so forth in one place. Try to acknowledge people who, possibly for very valid reasons for them, have chosen not to get caught up in it. It's no wonder that people are constantly complaining about the service getting worse and worse because they are so indoctrinated into its' use that they don't just take their business elsewhere when they're not happy with it. No, unlike the government, FB is not not forcing you to use it. Instead, it's indoctrinated users are effectively forcing everyone to use it by inadvertently ostracizing anyone who doesn't.

[Ron Helwig]

One of the big problems is that in order to satisfy everyone you need to post in a bunch of places. As well as FB, here, ShireSociety, NHTeaParty (is that dead yet?), Fr33Agents, FSP forum, and NHLA, there's a bunch of other places that stuff probably should be posted. In order to cover everyone you'd probably need to spend a few hours just posting a notice of "hey, this activist has a thing happening", and you'd probably still miss some places. Then there's the amount of time spent responding to stuff in each thread on each forum.

But I think this is a problem that will get solved eventually. Someone will figure out a way to actually get people to use RSS; maybe by making it look slightly different and naming it something more acceptable. [After all, Facebook is basically just a big RSS feed creator/editor/aggregator that they messed up in order to monetize.]

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm not saying stop using Fedbook. I'm saying try not to allow it to alter your behavior so significantly that you push out all market alternatives and centralize all of your planning and connections and so forth in one place. Try to acknowledge people who, possibly for very valid reasons for them, have chosen not to get caught up in it. It's no wonder that people are constantly complaining about the service getting worse and worse because they are so indoctrinated into its' use that they don't just take their business elsewhere when they're not happy with it. No, unlike the government, FB is not not forcing you to use it. Instead, it's indoctrinated users are effectively forcing everyone to use it by inadvertently ostracizing anyone who doesn't.

Thanks Dale. How considerate.

I might come off as an angry anti-Facebook guy (sorry), but I question how many people actually chose to use it vs. went on to it so as to not be "rude" to the invite the Facebook encourages the users to rope everyone they know into it. I know a woman that almost missed her family reunion because no one in her family bothered to tell her... "gee you must get on FB!"

I also appreciate the fun and positive use that people get from it. I just hate being corralled, led and being used for their advertising database... it's not because of their stated goal to connect the world... it's a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow... between these "private" efforts and "public" efforts like the census "community survey" big brother will have virtually everyone cross referenced and running through their algorithms to predict future "crime" subversion... already the younger generations have no expectation of privacy and will go along with corralling the rest of us, who remember the ability to be separate from the herd.

The insular nature of posting only on FB prevents new interested people from following along what is happening and deciding they are comfortable to join us. The irony is the secret planning is only secret from our potential allies, the spooks can get it all anyway.

I agree with Ron... some way to aggregate all these different sources would be the solution... it would also end the near monopoly status that a big player like FB has. It would be nice to use whatever "social networking" site you chose... hopefully a more libertarian service that didn't own your content.

[Becky Thatcher]

Thanks, Dale.

I have a friend who almost missed out on a family reunion because she isn't on Fedbook.  It's like you cease to exist.

I have to admit I find it rather amusing when libertarians flock to Fedbook just because "everyone else is doing it" but thanks for taking a moment to remember us forgotten people. 

[Tom Sawyer]

So now Becky and I are posting the same thoughts at the same time... reminds me when Kat and Russell would be sitting in the same room talking to each other on the forum.   

I'll take another cup of coffee baby.   

[Dave Ridley]

I agree with Tom and Dale I think, even if Tom puts a lot of vinegar in his concerns about facebook and seems to pour a lot of it on me, I think the concern is valid.  I hate having only a facebook link to give people, I hate almost everything that is being "shared" behind a wall of some kind. 

If you have time and the ability, it does seem best to put a copy of the event on a calendar.  But we don't really have any open calendars right now which people visit!  Free Keene's calendar is practically closed.   Maybe re-forming the NHFree calendar would be good?

[KBCraig]

Even as a heavy FB user, I think it sucks as a way of organizing events.

It's good for publicity, and word spreads quickly if you have a lot of friends, and they have lots of different friends. For discussion, it's terrible.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

Anything that effectively organizes information will be targeted by the people who want information about what's happening. This is an unavoidable fact.

Facebook happens to be that place. It's the second biggest website in the world and until I can Google "What are my friends doing this weekend?" and get an honest answer, it will be the best way to organize that information.

People who like to post on forums that have a theme seem to forget that not everybody's social circles are defined by those themes.

Until we eliminate the state, there will always be people who avoid effective organization of information because they fear it being used against them. Today it's Facebook, tomorrow it will be something else. I've heard the same arguement against the internet ITSELF - and it's just as stupid.

[Silent_Bob]

Anything that effectively organizes information will be targeted by the people who want information about what's happening. This is an unavoidable fact.

Facebook happens to be that place. It's the second biggest website in the world and until I can Google "What are my friends doing this weekend?" and get an honest answer, it will be the best way to organize that information.

People who like to post on forums that have a theme seem to forget that not everybody's social circles are defined by those themes.

Until we eliminate the state, there will always be people who avoid effective organization of information because they fear it being used against them. Today it's Facebook, tomorrow it will be something else. I've heard the same arguement against the internet ITSELF - and it's just as stupid.

Facebook Spies On Chats For Suspicious Behavior

http://www.prisonplanet.com/facebook-spies-on-chats-for-suspicious-behavior.html

Citing the need to watch for potential sex offenders, Facebook is using software that tracks private conversations for suspicious behavior and keywords before alerting Facebook employees who then decide whether to pass the information on to police.
Facebook Spies On Chats For Suspicious Behavior Facebook exchange

The revelation was divulged during a Reuters interview with the social networking giant's Chief Security Officer Joe Sullivan.

Despite the article acknowledging the fact that Internet-related sex crimes against children are on the decrease, the story cites a barrage of cases where children have been groomed online before revealing that Facebook "users could be unnerved about the extent to which their conversations are reviewed, at least by computer programs."

The software used by Facebook to monitor conversations works by searching "for improper communication" and analyzing "patterns of behavior."

Words or phrases considered vulgar or an attempt to exchange personal information are red flagged and brought to the attention of Facebook employees, who then decide whether the content is worthy of being brought to the attention of law enforcement.

Too many messages sent without response also sets off an alarm that characterizes the content as suspicious.

The article does not divulge whether or not archives of chat records are stored and for what length of time, but adds that similar software is used by other social networking websites.

On its website, Facebook acknowledges that it shares information about users even in the absence of a court order or other legal request.

"We may also share information when we have a good faith belief it is necessary to prevent fraud or other illegal activity, to prevent imminent bodily harm, or to protect ourselves and you from people violating our Statement of Rights and Responsibilities. This may include sharing information with other companies, lawyers, courts or other government entities."

Facebook has been caught in a number of privacy controversies in recent years.

Back in February, the company angrily denied a report by the Sunday Times which claimed Facebook was secretly reading texts sent by users of its Android app.

The U.S. government is actively involved in soliciting information from Facebook. Last month, the State Department issued a procurement request seeking tools that can provide "deep analysis of topics, conversations, networks, and influencers of the global social web."

Privacy advocates like Wikileaks' Julian Assange have repeatedly warned that social networks like Facebook and Twitter are little more than huge spying databases used by intelligence agencies to glean personal information.

[dalebert]

I've heard the same arguement against the internet ITSELF - and it's just as stupid.

What argument specifically?

[MaineShark]

Anything that effectively organizes information will be targeted by the people who want information about what's happening. This is an unavoidable fact.

There's a difference between something being abused for spying, and something that was engineered, from the very beginning, to serve that purpose.

The FBI might have a bug in the napkin dispenser on your table at the diner where you chat with your friends.

But going into an interrogation room with a microphone sitting on the table, in order to have the same discussion, just makes no sense.

[Jim Johnson]

Anything that effectively organizes information will be targeted by the people who want information about what's happening. This is an unavoidable fact.

Facebook happens to be that place. It's the second biggest website in the world and until I can Google "What are my friends doing this weekend?" and get an honest answer, it will be the best way to organize that information.

People who like to post on forums that have a theme seem to forget that not everybody's social circles are defined by those themes.

Until we eliminate the state, there will always be people who avoid effective organization of information because they fear it being used against them. Today it's Facebook, tomorrow it will be something else. I've heard the same arguement against the internet ITSELF - and it's just as stupid.

NHfree is theme based. 
When I'm looking for rat traps I don't want to search through the fresh produce or the women's underwear stores, when I can just go to the rat trap themed section of the hardware store. 

When I want to find out what is happening in the liberty community I don't care to know what people are eating for dinner, what they're watching on netflix; or "hey, I just took another picture of myself".

facebook is not for the type of activities that people on NHfree talk about.  I not going to "like" that KB's house gets struck by lighting, I'm not going to "like" when a cop beats anybody or shoots them or puts them in jail, and I'm certainly not going to "like" the next time some jack ass politician pulls a new law of his ass and calls it love.

I'm I supposed to "like" when shitty things happen to my friends?  I ain't gonna fuck'n do it.

[Becky Thatcher]

  
(Now people will think this is a PatK post) 

[Pat K]

 
(Now people will think this is a PatK post) 

You will be hearing from my lawyer!

[Lloyd Danforth]

I'm not going to "like" when a cop beats anybody or shoots them or puts them in jail,

No. What you 'like' is that hundreds of  thousand more people become aware of these abuses due to their being posted in FB. The idea, as I understand it is when I share those horror stories and, also share smart libertarian solutions to problems caused by government that are posted by members of our choir, my FB friends who are not members of our choir, who otherwise would not see this stuff, do.