Ostracizing non-Fedbookers

[Tom Sawyer]

the idea of Kat letting the Feds use the Underground for a frame-up is ludicrous.

Ludicrous? Or perhaps diabolical!

[Jim Johnson]

If that is so easy, why haven't they done it?

[MaineShark]

Haven't?  How many cases have been supported by evidence on folks' FB accounts?

It's becoming common, these days, for cops to start their investigations on FB.

[Jim Johnson]

I'm sorry, I thought you said that they would alter content and create a case against someone.
I agree facebook makes it easy for cops.  A cop in Nashua testified against me, saying he found me on facebook.

[MaineShark]

I'm sorry, I thought you said that they would alter content and create a case against someone.

I did.  How many of those cases that start with FB, also end there?

"As we all know, John Doe has long been critical of the government.  This courageous officer deserves a medal of valor for his brave search for Mr. Doe on FB.  He found out that, sure enough, Mr. Doe was plotting a terrorist attack, as proven by the following posts..."

Good luck finding out if those posts ever existed, prior to the officer's visit.

I'm not suggesting that the Nashua PD could pull something like that off, but there's little room to doubt that the FBI (etc.) could.  And that pretty much matches their current methodology with all the recent "terrorist" attacks that they've "foiled," which were all really just creations of their own agents.  How many of such cases are supported in large part by online posts?  How many of those on Obama's "let's murder the following folks" list are there because of posts they supposedly made online?

[Jim Johnson]

Couldn't they have always just signed the accused's name to an inflammatory letter?  In the style of, 'Here is a letter written by Mr. Revere, signed in his own hand, admitting to his guilt'.

I think there is a self preservation, on the part of authorities, in the need for additional evidence; and that is why people in the government don't create content on facebook.

[MaineShark]

Couldn't they have always just signed the accused's name to an inflammatory letter?  In the style of, 'Here is a letter written by Mr. Revere, signed in his own hand, admitting to his guilt'.

They can, but it's not as believable.  When did he actually sign that?  After he was in prison, under duress?  There's a near-perfect belief in the infallibility of timestamps on electronic messages, even though anyone with access to the actual database can change those.  So, they can create a series of messages, posted over months, supposedly demonstrating a pattern of behavior.

I think there is a self preservation, on the part of authorities, in the need for additional evidence; and that is why people in the government don't create content on facebook.

Of course they need additional evidence.  It's quite easy, and near-risk-free to plant that after they have a search warrant and are in your house.  What's hard is to plant it ahead of time, but the electronic option avoids that.

[Jim Johnson]

Try'n get a lasso around that paranoia.

[MaineShark]

Try'n get a lasso around that paranoia.

"Aliens are controlling things on earth!" <-- paranoia

"The Feds might do exactly what the Feds have done, many other times..." <-- not paranoia

[Russell Kanning]

people are still free to use this calender .... if I was planning an event in Keene I would post it on freekeene
I thought we hired LLoyd to represent us and inform us of all the activities of this "facebook"

[KBCraig]

I think things are getting mixed up, between the understandable concern for personal privacy, and the desire to publicize liberty events.

I recall the early days of the Underground, before FB even existed, when some would cry in horror because Russell and Lauren and others were "crazy" to announce and plan events right out in the open where the feds could see it.

The response was that there was safety in numbers and openess. Trying to be secretive among a small group practically begs for infiltration.

I believed that was a good strategy then, and I believe it's still true now.

[FTL_Ian]

Jim, we do have the Keene Liberty Activism Calendar at http://calendar.freekeene.com - however, I wouldn't want to have a calendar that was central for all NH activism.  It would be too loaded with stuff-to-do.

I think the "if you build it, they will come" concept will work here.  If enough people are on the forums, others will want to join.  If things are perceived to be happening on the forums that are not happening on facebook, people will want to join.

Only problem is that people are already on FB, so it makes it difficult to organize events without it.

Perhaps the next time someone organizes some kind of gathering they can make an event for it on facebook, but then put a link to their forum post in the FB event description?  I'll try to remember to do this next time.

[Dave Ridley]

>>The major need, that I see, is is a central calendar; that tells you who, what, when and where, and could direct people to the back story on the event.>>


bingo, that's the solution jim.   video and bulletion production have sucked all the air out of my room, but I guess that means I could do a video about the issue and hope someone runs with it!  although really it's simple.... we just need a super accessible shire society calendar.  Or failing that, a return of the NHFree.com calendar.   I can't even find that calendar.

[Tom Sawyer]

The discussion that leads up to an event is very important to agitate and mobilize folks... It's more than a calendar post.

The most successful events we have had involved a build up. Russell was like PT Barnum... the "showmanship" that leads to the event. Also the principled stand by a known and respected activist that promotes a message that resonates with others. Going to cuss against the law, dig a hole in Central Square, hang out with the Juggalos... doesn't resonate with many. The "branding" effort turned a blind eye to these negatives and "promoted" and "spun" till many lost faith. Easy to lose trust, hard to gain it back.

At a certain point there got to be too many events in a given time frame for people to consider going to everything... that is the difference between people that do this full-time and the rest of us... so the difference between where to invest time and money comes down to the build up and connection to the people involved.

As an aside, the sharpness of my comment that Dada referred to revolves around his inferring in a post of the FSP forum that forum posts here on this forum had been deleted. http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=25307.msg276355#msg276355
If someone deems to speak for the rest of us, they should take the time to get it right. However, Dave's handling of the vinegar is to be commended.

[Russell Kanning]

yea I cant find our calendar