I am so pissed off right now and really need some help on how to handle this

[Raineyrocks]

We get a phone call a little after 6 am this morning from Brandie's brother, she works at the same place as he does, and he left a message on the answering machine saying Brandie didn't show up for work this morning.  This is a girl who is never ever late!

A parent's worst nightmare, being woke up like that wondering if your kid is alright or not!  Last night she told us she was sleeping over her girlfriend's house to help come up with something nice to do for someone's family that just lost their daughter this week. 

Rick gets up quicker than me out of bed and calls Brandie's cell, no answer, omg, right?  I remembered the last 4 digits of her girlfriend's phone number so he calls there and this girl said Brandie never slept over there and had no idea what he was talking about.

A wretched 20 minutes goes by as I'm thumbing through my notebook where I try to keep all of the kid's friends phone numbers in and then Jonny calls and says Brandie just showed up at work.

Okay, now it's the thank god my kid is okay phase for a few minutes until it goes into the Mother Fucking Liar phase which is where I'm at now.   I don't know what to do!  This is my 4th kid so I'm been down the lying road before and before but each time the pain and anger is the same, it does not get better! 

She just turned 18 last week and everything was fine at least I thought, responsible, good head on her shoulders, just opened her first checking account, belongs to these nice groups at school, everything is fine with this one!  At least I thought!  I had a feeling she was lying last night about going to her girlfriends but she had gone there many times before she was 18 and gee after all she was going to figure out something nice to do for this family that just lost their daughter.  I said to her before she left because of my gut feeling, "this is your girlfriend's phone number, right?"   Brandie says with no hesitation, no weird look in her eyes, "Yup, see you after work tomorrow, love you".

I have no idea where the fuck she was all night, she blatantly concocted a bold face lie and played it off as smooth as anyone.  She gets off of work this afternoon and I have absolutely no idea how to handle this!

I know, I know, 5 kids you would think I would know, right?  I don't!  I'm shaking over the initial fear of everything, now my anger and what the fuck!

Please somebody help me!  Do we kick her out?  I am not going through this shit again with another kid lying, lying, and doing god knows what.

This is the kid that I put on the pill when she started dating, (with her agreement), we gave her more freedom than her older 3 siblings because we realized we were too strict and it didn't get us anywhere anyway.  I thought she was sharing everything with me, yup, I could smack myself for that one!  I thought that with her oldest sister and should have learned.

How do I not take this personal? 

What the hell do kids expect from us?  I can be honest and see where I've made mistakes with my other kids when they got older but I can't see it with this one, I really can't.  I don't mean I was perfect but I was calmer, less of a control freak, easily approachable, etc.  I was such an idiot with my oldest daughter I wouldn't put her on the pill because there would just be no sex and that was it!  Well, she got pregnant, (real long story), and I could actually see why she was afraid to talk to me about a lot of things.

I just don't get it.  My mother used to say the kids you are the nicest to are the ones that shit on you the most, is that true? 

Carrie was here this summer, (my 2nd daughter), and was amazed at how relaxed I was with Brandie and even commented several times, 'geesh mom I wish you were like that with us when we were her age, I would've never moved out'.

We didn't let Brandie do whatever she wanted, it wasn't like that but if she was at her boyfriends house she could come home at 11 pm.  Brandie had the reputation of being pretty honest, I know no one is going to be 100% but it was enough to have our trust.

I don't want to make the same mistake I always do by overreacting but I also don't want to under react either.  Something has to happen here on the parental end, right?

[Tom Sawyer]

If you show her how angry you are she can get mad at you and not face what she did.

Maybe... if you tell her how upset you were about her being missing then how disappointed and hurt your are that she lied and then don't talk about it until she makes an effort.

People take the short cut and lie about things... trying not to compound the mistake is more important than finding out where she was etc.

I think part of the grow up process requires some of this BS....

[MaineShark]

Ask.  Explain what happened (call from work, couldn't get in touch with her), and a how worried you were.  Let her explain her side, before you start accusing her of lying.  See what she has to say about it, and go from there.

As Tom notes, it's easy to puff up and storm if someone confronts you in an angry way.  "Where the hell were you?!"  Results in, "I'm 18 and it's none of your business!"

It's a lot harder to act defensive and self-righteous when someone says, "I love you and I was scared."  What's the response going to be?  "How dare you love me!," or something similar?  Not likely.

"This is what I saw happen, this is how it made me feel, now can you please tell me your side of things, so I know if my reaction was the correct one?" is a lot harder for someone to fight against, since you're admitting that you don't necessarily have all the facts, and are asking them to clarify things, rather than making accusations.

Maybe there's some really bizarre series of events that led to this with no nefarious intent on her part, and it will all end up being a hilarious story.  Maybe not, but keep an open mind until you have all of the facts.

[Raineyrocks]

Thank you so much Tom and MaineShark    What you guys say makes 100% sense and I will do it given that I have a few hours to calm down too and get this anger out of my system.

Thank you so, so, much!  I just shared what you guys wrote with Rick and he totally agrees too.  I appreciate both of you for taking the time and care on replying, what you both have said has already helped tremendously and has given me a "starting" point for this situation.  Hopefully handling this in a way I never have before will work out.

[Raineyrocks]

...and she's 18, let her have her own life.

She does and has had her own life we are just asking for consideration and some honesty.  I swear that is such a blanket statement Jim.  Did you read where we got a phone call at 6 a.m. this morning and no one even knew where the hell she was?  If there are simple rules like let us know where you are going so what; that's not stopping her from having her own life!

I tell Rick and the kids were I'm going so no one worries about me, it's something we all do as a courtesy, precaution whatever anyone chooses to call it.

Sorry, I disagree with your statement strongly.

[MaineShark]

Yeah, if she had her own life, that would be one thing.  But if she's living in Rainey's house, rather than out on her own, then she is not living an entirely-separate life.

If someone lives in my house, they are expected to obey the (very minimal) rules of my house.  If they have their own house, they can have their own rules.

[Raineyrocks]

Yeah, if she had her own life, that would be one thing.  But if she's living in Rainey's house, rather than out on her own, then she is not living an entirely-separate life.

If someone lives in my house, they are expected to obey the (very minimal) rules of my house.  If they have their own house, they can have their own rules.

Right on.  That was like when our oldest son was doing all kinds of really crazy stuff here and we told him if he wanted to continue his behavior he would have to leave.  It was his choice.

[Raineyrocks]

She just got home and told me where she was and what she was doing without me even saying a word.  I don't know if it's because her girlfriend told her Rick called this morning looking for her or if it was because she wanted to tell me but that's not the most important thing right now.

I won't put what she was doing but it is something that Rick and I talked to her about before her 18th birthday because she told us she had wanted to do this on her birthday.  We told her then to talk to us more about it if that's what she really wanted to do so we could help her not get busted and make sure she was with people that she trusted.  She said, "okay, I will" and was surprised that we were open to what she wanted to do.

We told her that her oldest sister wanted to do the same thing on her 18th birthday and we knew where she was and that she was safe.  Anyways, her birthday came and she told us that she was no longer interested in doing what she had talked to us about so it was dropped. 

I asked her why she felt she had to lie about where she was and she said she thought we would say no to what she was planning.  This is crazy because it's the same thing we already talked about weeks ago before her birthday, so I don't understand.  I told her how scared I was to get a phone call from her brother this morning and no one knowing where she was and she seemed not to care.  I asked her if she was going to continue to lie and she said, "probably". 

I did all of this in a very calm, reasonable way.  She left the room after telling me she would probably continue to lie and I just don't know what to do or say.

[Raineyrocks]

Yeah, if she had her own life, that would be one thing.  But if she's living in Rainey's house, rather than out on her own, then she is not living an entirely-separate life.

If someone lives in my house, they are expected to obey the (very minimal) rules of my house.  If they have their own house, they can have their own rules.

Right on.  That was like when our oldest son was doing all kinds of really crazy stuff here and we told him if he wanted to continue his behavior he would have to leave.  It was his choice.

Overly concerned parent is overly concerned.

Your kids are doing exactly what you have taught them to do... not by words, by your actions.

Wow, so you know what my actions are or were around my children?  Overly concerned parent?  Or a parent that was afraid that their daughter got in a car accident?  You sound like a text book robot that classifies everyone and every situation into one ignorant category!

So in other words my children don't have their own lives anyway they are just blind empty headed vessels that only do what I have taught them to do?  None of these things are their own thoughts or decisions?  Give me a break, what a load of crap Jim!

[Tom Sawyer]

That you are so angry, says a great deal more.

Did you get that off a fortune cookie? 

Seriously...  lying and being inconsiderate is an issue no matter what age you are.

[MaineShark]

That I called her an adult rips away the reason that Rainey is mad at her daughter.  Rainey no longer has proper reason to tell her daughter what to do.

When did you call her an adult?  The only thing close to that which I can see in your posts here is commenting that she was 18, the State-defined age of majority.  Is the State now defining adulthood for us?

It's a thing I see in a lot of "liberty" people, that is that they don't want people to be free as much as they want to be in charge.

Freedom cannot exist without respecting others' freedom.  If someone is living in my house, they are, by definition, impinging upon my freedom - there are choices I cannot make, because of that situation.  I have chosen to allow them to do so, of course.  It is entirely appropriate to expect a certain level of respect, at minimum, in return for that consideration.  Else, we are not talking about freedom, we're talking about free-loading.

[Raineyrocks]

Being inconsiderate shows disrespect and you can't respect anyone you can lie too.
She probably gets the lying thing most directly from her father and the acceptance of it from her mother.

That I called her an adult rips away the reason that Rainey is mad at her daughter.  Rainey no longer has proper reason to tell her daughter what to do.

It's a thing I see in a lot of "liberty" people, that is that they don't want people to be free as much as they want to be in charge.

Actually Jim I have 3 other "adult" children so this is not new ground for me even though some situations that may arise feel like it. It doesn't mean that I am angry at my adult children because of an age or control thing.  Believe it or not I have better things to do with my life than tell my children what to do.  What part of I was scared over a 6 a.m. phone call and not knowing where my daughter was because she lied about her whereabouts don't you understand?  It's not even an age "thing", it's a concern for my child's well being.

Also, your statement that she is 18 didn't rip anything away from me, your words really aren't literate enough to have that profound of an effect on my mind; sorry to say.

So now you are ineffectively trying to put "liberty" people in a category, that carries with it no logic whatsoever.  MaineShark did a much better job than I could at summing up a logical response to you regarding this statement, however I shall give it a try because it seems like maybe you need more help understanding this.

It's not about being in charge, it seems like you are the one with that issue as you feel the need to try to command this entire thread with your useless input.  I do not see one helpful comment on this thread from you, not one!  In the spirit of your freedom however I have replied to your posts as you are free to write them; but I do not find them helpful or logical.

Your weak analogy of Brandie's behavior is simply unfounded as you have no clue if she's been repeatedly exposed to Rick's lies and my so called acceptance to affect her every choice in her life.  In other words, Brandie has no mind of her own, that is what you are strongly implying here, right? 

Again you are making the statement that my children have no accountability for their own choices and actions!  It all has to do with Rick and I, we are like computer wires that plugged into their brain and downloaded their entire personalities, so gone is individuality, right? 

So then according to your attempt at logic every human being walking around has already been "caged" and personalities predetermined by their parents/caretakers actions, so where does actual freedom exist in your "logic"? 

[Jim Johnson]

OK, sorry.

[Raineyrocks]

OK, sorry.

I know I seemed harsh in some of my replies to you Jim and I wish it didn't have to go the way it all did but I felt a natural right to defend myself against some of the things you wrote.

I truly hope there are no hard feelings and your apology is accepted.