What are the downsides to secession?

[president]

I have also forgotten JonM lives in Mass ...... he is used to being around unhappy socialists and losing.

What gives you the impression the socialists in Taxachusetts are unhappy?

They look unhappy whenever I am there. The state seems 90% populated by very unhappy people.

Are you sure you're running into the actual socialists, and not just the people being downtrodden by them?

Jim Perry likes it so much better than NH he went back.

Amanda also likes it.

[JonM]

Well the commute to Harvard is a bit longer from NH, perhaps she's trying to conserve gas.  I'm kinda hoping that the Democrats put up someone who can actually win the governorship here, then the whole commonwealth will head down the drain and we should be able to really improve recruitment from Massachusetts.

[president]

Well the commute to Harvard is a bit longer from NH, perhaps she's trying to conserve gas.

Yea, freedom isn't worth the commute. 

[JonM]

Well the commute to Harvard is a bit longer from NH, perhaps she's trying to conserve gas.

Yea, freedom isn't worth the commute. 

She does what she feels is best for her, who are you to say otherwise?

[Dreepa]

Well the commute to Harvard is a bit longer from NH, perhaps she's trying to conserve gas.

Yea, freedom isn't worth the commute. 

She does what she feels is best for her, who are you to say otherwise?

Should she represent for the FSP?
I don't care about her living in MA.  But I would like a more vocal/active prez.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I haven't seen many people prothletize for the FSP, but, I have been with Amanda when she is doing it and have seen no one better at it. In the past I have suggested that she become 'Ambassador At Large' for the FSP and choose someone who has moved into NH as Prez as planned after Jason  stepped down. Dennis Goddard and JonM also sell the FSP very well too.  Dennis lives in NH!

[Russell Kanning]

So one of the downsides would be that we will be separated from JonM and this Amanda person el presidente keeps refering to?

[Tunga]

US Constitution

Article IV

Section 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion....

There is the ammo.

Anyone lose a loved one on 9-11?
Oklahoma city bombing?

The soft underbelly is yearning for a well placed arrow from an affected member of the body politic.

[Tunga]

Too bad everyone that accepted a huge check from the feds in exchange for the sacrifice of a loved one agreed to never even talk about it.

[Russell Kanning]

We are going to be pushing the 9/11 thing here pretty soon.
Have you had any luck opening people's eyes?

[Tunga]

I have. Most people find the whole thing fishy in light of the fact that our government admits to spying on us 24/7 yet when something big goes down they claim ignorance.

How is it that with no bodies, no evidence,no clue whatsoever, that the government produced a photo montage of all the supposed hyjackers later the same day?

The denial and destruction of "Able Danger". The death of uberagent FBI John O'Neil. The strange fact that all the targets were repositories of the most damming evidence the government had collected on itself.

The gold heist in the basement. The gagging of the Air traffic controllers and the families of the victims.

The list is long and getting longer. The only skeptics left are government shills like Karl Rove and his butt buddy Georgie porgie puddin pie.

One word for it? Treason.

[Russell Kanning]

      It is a story worth telling. The Utah War showed how the American nation would deal with perceived rebellion and how an invaded people would react, foreshadowing events of the real Civil War that would follow just four years later.
      What is now western Wyoming would turn into a battlefield ? and Mormons would convert canyons of northeastern Utah into armed fortresses ? because of disputes in the 1850s between Brigham Young and federal officials sent to govern the territory of Utah.
      Many of those officials told the press of the day and President James Buchanan that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints refused to subject themselves to federal judges' rulings and federal law, and that the Mormons would follow only Brigham Young.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640193484,00.html

[Roycerson]

      It is a story worth telling. The Utah War showed how the American nation would deal with perceived rebellion and how an invaded people would react, foreshadowing events of the real Civil War that would follow just four years later.
      What is now western Wyoming would turn into a battlefield ? and Mormons would convert canyons of northeastern Utah into armed fortresses ? because of disputes in the 1850s between Brigham Young and federal officials sent to govern the territory of Utah.
      Many of those officials told the press of the day and President James Buchanan that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints refused to subject themselves to federal judges' rulings and federal law, and that the Mormons would follow only Brigham Young.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640193484,00.html

The Utah War is an inspiring story indeed but there were some conditions existing back then that are much changed now.  Most importantly transportation.  The Mormon's went to great lengths to avoid bloodshed and destroy supplies.  With their supplies gone and the daunting task of bringing more supplies across the plains the Army quickly realized that continuing the invasion would not be worth it.  There was only one casualty in the Utah War and that guy dropped dead of heart failure.  If there had been more bloodshed than the feds might have been a little more persistent, not wanting to let loss of life go unpunished.  I think we can learn a lot from the Utah war  especially in the Mormon's use of terrain to keep the Army out by blocking passes and destroyingtheir own more accessible fortifications to prevent them from falling into the hands of the army but must understand that it's a different world now.  Also, these guys were defending the Salt Lake Valley not an entire state.

A little clarification.  That western Wyoming turning into a battlefield bit is more than a bit overstated.  And the "federal officials" was really one federal judge and his lackeys who had a bone to pick with Brigham Young.  He was supported by some folks in Washington of course but locally the problem was one pissed off judge on a mission.  The war was not a war so much as an Army getting all their supplies burnt and turning around and heading home.

The Mormons didn't have near as much luck closer to civilization.  See:  The Jackson County Wars or the history of Nauvoo, IL.

HEY!!!  My Mormon upbringing DID leave me with something worthwhile!!! 

[Caleb]

Hollywood and I had an interesting experience last night with some young ladies.  I was wearing my "uniform", and they liked it, thought it was funny, so they questioned me about it.  I told them that I wear my coveralls so I won't be so intimidating with my radical ideas.  Told them about our independence group formed because of U.S. atrocities, etc.

One of the girls says, "you mean like bringing down the World Trade Center?" 

People who know the truth about 9-11 are in a state of flux, wondering what to do about it.  I have a natural solution to the problem, and they usually accept it fairly easily when it is presented to them.

Why disconnect two ideas that so naturally fit together?  I'm not afraid of being labelled a "kook".  Someone has to start talking about these ideas.  OF COURSE, people are going to try do demonize us.  They're going to do that whether or not we talk about 9-11.

I think that people who are afraid of this idea probably haven't done the leg work and actually got out and talked to people.  People aren't as stupid as you think they are, and they will listen to your ideas if you present them intelligently and with conviction.  It also helps to smile and be friendly, and treat them as if they are an intelligent person and not an idiot.

Caleb

[Russell Kanning]

The Utah War is an inspiring story indeed but there were some conditions existing back then that are much changed now.

I wasn't posting the story for inspiration. It was for info about things I personally want to avoid. To me this was another story that shows how resisting evil by force doesn't work very well.