actually doing nothing

[maxxoccupancy]

I have noticed that there are two groups of roughly equal size in amongst freestaters: those who are trying to change actual votes in the legislature, and those who are buring everything from SS cards to UN flags.  Notwithstanding the effect on global warming, I can't imagine that pictures of flagburners on the cover of newspapers and magazines will have the impact on independent voters that we were all hoping for.

We have to build the political machinery that swings votes toward liberty.  That means building up a pool of activists, donors, campaign managers and volunteers.  We need to continuously build the machinery to the point where pro-liberty candidates know that they can declare, depending on a large base of support.  We need entrenched incumbents (crooks, jerks, etc...) to know that they will have to fight a tougher battle each year to remain in office.  Some of the worst legislators have simply been retiring because they don't want to have to deal with upcoming campaigns to boot them out.

The amount of work in front of us is enormous.  To actually change this system will be difficult.  Most of the volunteers that we're going to get are going to come from NH.

We have state elections in even numbered years, and local elections in odd numbered years.  We have to make up the taxpayer advocate cards each year for each ward, to run newspaper, magazine, and radio ads.  We have to hold signs, update databases, make the calls, and raise funds.  The other side is doing it, and they know the system better than anyone.  Those interest groups getting our tax money get started early in the process.  They put union dues and association fees money into soft money and political campaigns early in the year when it creates the biggest impact.

There are still a lot of socialists and communists out there.  I meet them all the time.  They have ALL moved over to the Democrat side, because so many Dems are enacting their policies--as many as they can get away with.  There are plenty of Aschroft Republicans out there, and we need to get on the horse and get them out of office... or at least down to the point where there are not enough of them to get a bill passed.

We have to be there at the local level in towns all over the state, showing the people what's really going on in their city governments--the pocket padding, the cronyism, the corruption.  This is work, not protesting.  It feels great to be part of a movement, but we're facing off against some fierce political machinery, and we need to have an active network of our own.

--Max

[Fluff and Stuff]

I have noticed that there are two groups of roughly equal size in amongst freestaters: those who are trying to change actual votes in the legislature, and those who are buring everything from SS cards to UN flags.  Notwithstanding the effect on global warming, I can't imagine that pictures of flagburners on the cover of newspapers and magazines will have the impact on independent voters that we were all hoping for.

I would say that the vast majority of FSP members plan to keep their SS Cards and pay the IRS until they are safe not doing so (which may be never).

However, it never hurts to burn a UN rag...

[PowerPenguin]

I still have my SS card because A) It's not here and B) I might need it for some future BS ID reason, as I have before (So much for it not being for 'id purposes', eh?). I torched my tax forms so I beat all of yall! :twisted: I plan to move over there in a few years, bringing my organization skills, motivation, and hopefully buisiness with me. I want to start a service buisiness geared especially towards pro-freedom activists and that will hopefully do two things:

1. Make me lots of $
2. Provide security for more potential activists, making them more likely to participate. The 'fear factor' is stronger than the 'logic factor', so if I/we/whoever can provide a way to minimize fear and enhance a sense of security, greater things can happen.

[tracysaboe]

I think you'l find that people on this forum, largely believe in non-political, methods of affecting change, believe that voting: At best doesn't work, and at worse encourages the politicians and parasites, adds false-legitimacy to the system, and is an inherently evil and coersive method of obtaining change. Many on this forum believe that if an actual libertarian political machinery develops once it got in power, it would become just as corrupt as the current fair.

If you look at the NHLA they've doing a lot of reform on the more political angle. And several from the anti-tax groups are into political methods of change, and many of them frequent these forums also. But it's not the base of their opporations like it in many ways is for the non-political types

Tracy

[Fluff and Stuff]

I think you'l find that people on this forum, largely believe in non-political, methods of affecting change...

You will also find that Tracy is in a vacum (or comic book)

[Dreepa]

I think you'l find that people on this forum, largely believe in non-political, methods of affecting change, believe that voting: At best doesn't work, and at worse encourages the politicians and parasites,

Tracy there are dozens on this board who:
1.  Vote
2.  Testify in Concord.
3.  Are working in their towns for change.

Some people believe that there has to be a mixture of the two to work effectively.

[intergraph19]

I think you'l find that people on this forum, largely believe in non-political, methods of affecting change, believe that voting: At best doesn't work, and at worse encourages the politicians and parasites,

Tracy there are dozens on this board who:
1.  Vote
2.  Testify in Concord.
3.  Are working in their towns for change.

Some people believe that there has to be a mixture of the two to work effectively.

4. support other free staters and liberty minded candidates for office.
5. help educate and promote the cause of liberty to the people already here.


Count me in this bunch.  ^_^

[tracysaboe]

I think you'l find that people on this forum, largely believe in non-political, methods of affecting change...

You will also find that Tracy is in a vacum (or comic book)

I'm well awware that many people on this forum are also into political methods.  And I think that's great too. When I get to NH I'll probably parttake in both. But this post was critisizing the non-political methods and I was just trying to explain that many people on this forum don't believe in political methods of change.

(To be perfectly honest TN. I'm about 4 months behind on my comic reading, because I've been to busy to even to that. The one think that I actually WANT to do.)

[Dave Ridley]

Tracy wrote:

<<I think you'l find that people on this forum, largely believe in non-political, methods of affecting change>>

That's true, but I always hoped this forum would be a watering hole for the NHLA types too and I hope more of them will start hanging out here and use it as their base of public communications.   It's not as if we fight here over that issue, the issue of inside vs. outside change.  That fight seems to happen in other places.

[Dreepa]

That's true, but I always hoped this forum would be a watering hole for the NHLA types too and I hope more of them will start hanging out here and use it as their base of public communications. 

I agree the NHLA forum is dead.
I think this is a great place to learn about bills etc. Maybe even have protests that lead to better laws... a la Mike the Manicurist.

[CNHT]

We have to be there at the local level in towns all over the state, showing the people what's really going on in their city governments--the pocket padding, the cronyism, the corruption.  This is work, not protesting.  It feels great to be part of a movement, but we're facing off against some fierce political machinery, and we need to have an active network of our own.

--Max

I tend to agree with Max. The protests do serve to call attention to things, however, there are lots of things upon which time is spent on this forum that are not even here in NH. I like to concentrate on NH things, specifically the money, because it is he who has the money that has the power and that is why I work for the taxpayer groups.

Besides, which of you young single women (ages 23-32) would be able to pass up a chance to work beside an absolute  cutie like our own adorable Max?

[CNHT]

I think you'l find that people on this forum, largely believe in non-political, methods of affecting change, believe that voting: At best doesn't work, and at worse encourages the politicians and parasites, adds false-legitimacy to the system, and is an inherently evil and coersive method of obtaining change. Many on this forum believe that if an actual libertarian political machinery develops once it got in power, it would become just as corrupt as the current fair.

If you look at the NHLA they've doing a lot of reform on the more political angle. And several from the anti-tax groups are into political methods of change, and many of them frequent these forums also. But it's not the base of their opporations like it in many ways is for the non-political types

Tracy

...and not voting is also aiding and abetting the socialists to take hold in NH...thank you very much.

[CNHT]

Tracy wrote:

<<I think you'l find that people on this forum, largely believe in non-political, methods of affecting change>>

That's true, but I always hoped this forum would be a watering hole for the NHLA types too and I hope more of them will start hanging out here and use it as their base of public communications.   It's not as if we fight here over that issue, the issue of inside vs. outside change.  That fight seems to happen in other places.

We have plenty of mailing lists for those who are doing the work, especially like the bill triage list from the NHLA. They are too busy to be hanging out here. I have the luxury of working from  home on a computer all day so I can check in frequently. Others are holding full time jobs for non-political businesses in the private sector because they have families to support.

And I hope the ones doing the physical stuff will also vote too. Because as I said, if not, you are just abetting the socialists to take over NH.






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[CNHT]

That's true, but I always hoped this forum would be a watering hole for the NHLA types too and I hope more of them will start hanging out here and use it as their base of public communications. 

I agree the NHLA forum is dead.
I think this is a great place to learn about bills etc. Maybe even have protests that lead to better laws... a la Mike the Manicurist.

Well I repeat, the NHLA people all go to work in the daytime, and the rest of the time are at the statehouse or reviewing bills or running for or holding office.

[president]

Well I repeat, the NHLA people all go to work in the daytime, and the rest of the time are at the statehouse or reviewing bills or running for or holding office.

Do you believe the stuff you type?

Seth is a pussy, he was posting here, but started catchin' feelins, and left.