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"Let them march all they want, as long as they pay their taxes."  --Alexander Haig

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Author Topic: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia  (Read 5816 times)

Mrs. Concious

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case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« on: March 04, 2006, 12:02 PM NHFT »

http://www.peterleeson.com/Better_Off_Stateless.pdf

The paper is 33 pages long.

I just love intellectuals.
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Ron Helwig

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2006, 06:25 PM NHFT »

Quote
Indeed, thus far in the stateless period, the two greatest disruptions of relative stability
and renewed social conflict have occurred precisely in the two times that a formal government
was attempted?first with the TNF and more recently with the TFG. In both cases the specter of
government disturbed the delicate equilibrium of power that exists between competing factions,
and led to increased violence and deaths due to armed conflict (Menkhaus 2004).
I'd like to see the numbers with these periods removed.

Quote
At the moment at least, it seems that in upsetting this delicate balance of power the attempted
reestablishment of government in Somalia is likely to lead to more conflict and obstacles to
progress rather than less. This would have the undesirable effect of reversing the strides toward
increased development Somalia has achieved

Good article. I read the whole thing.
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Dreepa

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2006, 07:33 PM NHFT »

All who want to go to somalia... have fun.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 08:53 PM NHFT by Dreepa »
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Ron Helwig

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2006, 07:53 PM NHFT »

All who want to somalia... have fun.

Somalia as a verb!

In summary, the article makes a good argument that anarchy is better than bad government. It doesn't go as far as saying anarchy is better than a good, "limited" government.
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KBCraig

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2006, 11:51 PM NHFT »

I think Somalia demonstrates that even in the absence of an official government, power structures will exist.

Anarchy is a great idea. But the problem is, government (even de facto government) is going to exist. It fills a vacuum.

Kevin
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tracysaboe

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2006, 01:28 AM NHFT »

All who want to somalia... have fun.

Somalia as a verb!

In summary, the article makes a good argument that anarchy is better than bad government. It doesn't go as far as saying anarchy is better than a good, "limited" government.

Of course to say whether or not Anarchy is better the good "Limited" government is neither true nore false. In Formal Logic this is known as the "null space" as there is no such thing as a good "limited" government. Government by it's very nature is not limited.

Tracy
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tracysaboe

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2006, 01:29 AM NHFT »

I think Somalia demonstrates that even in the absence of an official government, power structures will exist.

Anarchy is a great idea. But the problem is, government (even de facto government) is going to exist. It fills a vacuum.

Kevin

Of course the power structures in Somalia are largely based on volentary arangement and whether they're not, they're in competition with other power structures which tends to keep them in check -- onlike a government power structure which has a legal monopoly on such things. That was the whole point of the constitution and seperation of powers, to have competion between the different branches of government and different levels of government (Citi vs state vs federal) Anarchy, is simply a more pure form of this concept.

See Roderick's Anarchism as Constitutionalism: A Reply to Bidinotto,
Parts One http://praxeology.net/unblog12-03.htm#02 ,
Two http://praxeology.net/unblog12-03.htm#14 , and
Three http://praxeology.net/unblog02-04.htm#14

Tracy
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 01:39 AM NHFT by tracysaboe »
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KBCraig

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2006, 05:02 AM NHFT »

Of course the power structures in Somalia are largely based on volentary arangement

When bullets are flying, it's a safe bet that someone is unhappy with something that they didn't volunteer for.

Peace exists either voluntarily or through superior force. They're still applying force on force in Somalia, so it's not voluntary, nor is it peaceful.

Kevin
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watershed

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2008, 02:35 PM NHFT »

Natural Order insists something or someone is dominant, always! true pacifist societies shall never exist. only in artificial environments will it maintain a level coexistence and if only protected by force.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2008, 07:12 PM NHFT »

Small clan or tribal governments exist in many instances throughout the world. Humans are by nature a 'social' creature that creates them. Only solitary creatures exhibit any true anarchy.
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Vitruvian

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2008, 07:51 PM NHFT »

Quote from: John Edward Mercier
Small clan or tribal governments exist in many instances throughout the world. Humans are by nature a 'social' creature that creates them.

Every state, no matter how small, is fundamentally an antisocial organization.  Civilized society is predicated on voluntary cooperation and mutual aid; the State thrives on plunder and pillage. 
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2008, 08:02 PM NHFT »

Smaller than clans would be families, then the parent-child relationship.
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kola

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2008, 10:56 PM NHFT »

I heard it is nice in the Phillippines.

Kola
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watershed

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2008, 12:32 AM NHFT »

Small clan or tribal governments exist in many instances throughout the world. Humans are by nature a 'social' creature that creates them. Only solitary creatures exhibit any true anarchy.
[/quote

solitary creatures are independant.

 children are raised to be dependant or independant, both are learned behavior. certain personalities may lean one way or the other...naturally
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David

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Re: case study on successfull anarchist state...somalia
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 11:58 AM NHFT »

Quote
Indeed, thus far in the stateless period, the two greatest disruptions of relative stability
and renewed social conflict have occurred precisely in the two times that a formal government
was attempted?first with the TNF and more recently with the TFG. In both cases the specter of
government disturbed the delicate equilibrium of power that exists between competing factions,
and led to increased violence and deaths due to armed conflict (Menkhaus 2004).
I'd like to see the numbers with these periods removed.

Quote
At the moment at least, it seems that in upsetting this delicate balance of power the attempted
reestablishment of government in Somalia is likely to lead to more conflict and obstacles to
progress rather than less. This would have the undesirable effect of reversing the strides toward
increased development Somalia has achieved

Good article. I read the whole thing.


I have heard this from somewhere else as well.  The promise of a gov't sends the various factions into a frenzy to ensure that they control the new gov't.  Unfortunately, gov't likes to establish puppets in other areas, and so the 'promise' of gov'ts is unlikely to cease in somalia any time soon.   >:( 
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