CNHT's paranoia about open borders

[CNHT]

I don't think the UN has any interest in taking us over without our government's help or that they could get their shit together to do it.  Plus, they can't get out of bed without US funding.
Some country out their might have the ability and stones to invade us, but, how much worse would we be without the government we have whose military is designed to invade and conduct wars in other countries, not defend this one, and is overextended to boot.
I think ending the government and puting all of the land mass into private hands would, certainly,  change immigration as we know it and not be likely to increase the likelyhood of invasion.

Who said our government isn't helping them? They are and this is the problem!

I am not so concerned with people coming into the country from other countries as I am about the UN governing us by treaty ? because their brand of government is all encompassing and definitely not 'freedom' as we envision it. The border issue is just a minor indication of the compliance of our own gov't in the US with the eventual loss of sovereignty. Heck, even the French voted NO on that!

Which is why I don't bother arguing about it except when defending myself against people who accuse me of not liking others who are different.
That I will not tolerate because it is simply not true.

And by the way be wary of those who start making wild accusations of tin hats and helicopters....such as Bill...the best way to deny your complicitness with this UN trash is to deny it exists. You can read for yourself Bill's "New Acadia" arcticle on the SVR site...
Heck don't aske me what Scotty was doin' there! 

[Lloyd Danforth]

What Ian I think doesn't quite understand, is that we don't live in a "truly free land." And that there needs to be a certain order of opporations in bring about liberty. Advocating for open boarders, before we get rid of welfore, affirmative actions, etc is asking for more statism and trouble.

Tracy

Murray Rothbard used to ask his students if there was a button in front of them and by pressing it they could end the existance of government immediatly, would they press it and deal with the 'shakeout', or, not press it and wait for the 'orderly' dissolution of authority.
The right answer is: press the button  because the continuous 24/7 oppression by the government and it's laws is worse than the 'shakeout' that would follow.
I agree with Rothbard, although I don't think he and his students would have made it out of Manhattan alive if they pressed the button

[CNHT]

What Ian I think doesn't quite understand, is that we don't live in a "truly free land." And that there needs to be a certain order of opporations in bring about liberty. Advocating for open boarders, before we get rid of welfore, affirmative actions, etc is asking for more statism and trouble.

Tracy

Murray Rothbard used to ask his students if there was a button in front of them and by pressing it they could end the existance of government immediatly, would they press it and deal with the 'shakeout', or, not press it and wait for the 'orderly' dissolution of authority.
The right answer is: press the button  because the continuous 24/7 oppression by the government and it's laws is worse than the 'shakeout' that would follow.
I agree with Rothbard, although I don't think he and his students would have made it out of Manhattan alive if they pressed the button

I would gladly press the button if it would rid us of the UN as well. Otherwise, they would just be waiting there to pick up the pieces and impose even more social control.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Who said our government isn't helping them? They are and this is the problem!

I was positing a situation where the government was no longer there to help the UN take us over.  I thaought I made that clear.

[CNHT]

Who said our government isn't helping them? They are and this is the problem!

I was positing a situation where the government was no longer there to help the UN take us over.  I thaought I made that clear.

I see, well then, press away! 

[FTL_Ian]

Sorry it took so long to get back here.. alright, lets have a go:

First, paranoia is paranoia.  I don't consider it rude to label it as such.  I've experienced paranoia, so I feel like I can comment on it.  It's not really paranoia if they are really out to get you.  In the case of CNHT, they are not out to get her.  She's just been scared by the NWO crowd.

A. While there may be authoritarians who crave power, it's obvious they don't care much to slience the several people that "expose" the NWO on a daily basis.  Alex Jones, for instance.  I know if I was a power mad authoritarian with automatons at my disposal, I'd order the deaths of people exposing my plot.

B. The problem with the NWO crowd is that they assign WAY too much efficiency to government (and the UN).  They forget, or do not know, that government cannot do anything efficiently, that government is slow, plodding, and stupid.  It doesn't matter how many officials meet in smokey rooms, and what they talk about.  Government doesn't work.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what the UN is doing.  I don't waste my time "researching" them or the NWO.  I spend my time promoting Liberty to as many people as possible.  Every minute you spend researching is a minute you could have been doing something productive for Liberty.

In regards to Tracy's earlier comment, OF COURSE I want to end welfare prior to opening the borders.  It would be foolish to do one without the other.

CNHT, what is rude is acting like you're something else just because you're older.  I sure didn't take a personal shot at you, and I'd appreciate a more thoughtful response than an ageist attack.  Few things bug me more than someone suggesting they are superior because they've been sucking air longer.

[CNHT]

Sorry it took so long to get back here.. alright, lets have a go:

First, paranoia is paranoia.  I don't consider it rude to label it as such.  I've experienced paranoia, so I feel like I can comment on it.  It's not really paranoia if they are really out to get you.  In the case of CNHT, they are not out to get her.  She's just been scared by the NWO crowd.

Not scared, just aware of the big picture...and have seen its effects first hand on me as a person, and in my career.

A. While there may be authoritarians who crave power, it's obvious they don't care much to slience the several people that "expose" the NWO on a daily basis.  Alex Jones, for instance.  I know if I was a power mad authoritarian with automatons at my disposal, I'd order the deaths of people exposing my plot.

You don't know that Jones has not been threatened do you? I'll bet he has.  I would say they do, the US gov't did harass and eventually kill quite a few people for talking about it - some were not paying taxes or using drivers licenses.

B. The problem with the NWO crowd is that they assign WAY too much efficiency to government (and the UN).  They forget, or do not know, that government cannot do anything efficiently, that government is slow, plodding, and stupid.  It doesn't matter how many officials meet in smokey rooms, and what they talk about.  Government doesn't work.

We know this but they do not and take their plans VERY SERIOUSLY and thus so should we.

If you read some of the UN websites, you will see how seriously this is taken, when the UN was never meant to be a serious gov't org in the first place! So how is it that they are commandeering so much of our law and way of life and now want to tax us and our resources and influence everything we do? If you are concerned with freedom how can you ignore the UN?

Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what the UN is doing.  I don't waste my time "researching" them or the NWO.  I spend my time promoting Liberty to as many people as possible.  Every minute you spend researching is a minute you could have been doing something productive for Liberty.

Well it helps to see the big picture in the state of world affairs and shows me why we should not argue over wars, borders, etc. But we need to continue to expose and go against the UN.

In regards to Tracy's earlier comment, OF COURSE I want to end welfare prior to opening the borders.  It would be foolish to do one without the other.

CNHT, what is rude is acting like you're something else just because you're older.  I sure didn't take a personal shot at you, and I'd appreciate a more thoughtful response than an ageist attack.  Few things bug me more than someone suggesting they are superior because they've been sucking air longer.

I'm not acting like I'm 'something else' because I'm old enough to be your grandmother, I'm just telling you how long and in depth I have studied this and watched it creep into our lives over time. There were many people who did not understand this phenomenon before they saw the Russo movie. It is not enough just to oppose our US gov't, we have to understand where it is all coming from.

And did you forget that you (or was it someone else?) accused me of not liking 'brown' people? I took that as a personal attack and quite rude.
If I think you don't understand why open borders are a symptom of something bigger, it's not because I am going to make a personal attack on you, I am simply going to try to inform you of what I think you are not taking into consideration. It doesn't matter whether we want open borders or not since we can't do much about it either way. We just have to look at it analytically for what it is...and I believe it is just as they said in the movie -- no president cares since with the NWO the borders will be redefined.. it's actually a catalyst to get you to accept world gov't in fact..

[CNHT]

OH and by the way, in the past month I have made 6 websites for new anti-tax groups, trained 3 people to upkeep them, published 4 LTEs, done 4 radio shows, posted numerous articles for Ed, attended 6 meetings, and signed up ONE NEW *fabulous* FSPer to the first 1,000 campaign.

So please do not ever doubt my dedication to freedom......

[FTL_Ian]

Not scared, just aware of the big picture...and have seen its effects first hand on me as a person, and in my career.

Examples? Has the NWO been keeping you down?

You don't know that Jones has not been threatened do you? I'll bet he has.  I would say they do, the US gov't did harass and eventually kill quite a few people for talking about it - some were not paying taxes or using drivers licenses.

Of course he's been threatened, all talk hosts of a national stature get that.  Talk is cheap though.  Where are the big bad NWO hitmen when you need them?

We know this but they do not and take their plans VERY SERIOUSLY and thus so should we.

If government doesn't work, then what do their plans matter?  Do you think they take our plans seriously?  If so, why haven't they assassinated the head of the FSP?  (Sorry Varrin!)  That ought to strike some terror into those upstarts!

If you are concerned with freedom how can you ignore the UN?

I'll give them attention when they come looking for their taxes, because they aren't getting them.

Well it helps to see the big picture in the state of world affairs and shows me why we should not argue over wars, borders, etc. But we need to continue to expose and go against the UN.

I'm against the UN, but I feel no need to "expose" them.  They are illegitimate, and I did not grant them authority.  End of story.  If they try to impose taxes, I will refuse.  If they try to impose "order", I will disobey and fight.

And did you forget that you (or was it someone else?) accused me of not liking 'brown' people? I took that as a personal attack and quite rude.

You're right, that was uncalled for, though I think I directed it at Tunga.  American xenophobia does tend to be based in racism, from the experiences we've had talking to the xenophobes on-air.  Not all xenophobes are racist, but they do exist.  It's just so frustrating that people who are generally against government control, can believe that government can effectively control the border.

It's a fantasy.

[FTL_Ian]

I didn't doubt your dedication.  Most NWO-ites spend all their time "researching".  I didn't suggest that's all you did, but thanks for clarifying.

[CNHT]

Examples? Has the NWO been keeping you down?

Most everything done in the schools these days is due to some federal program put in place because of a UN treaty. It certainly made it difficult for me to be a good teacher with a conscience when I was being asked to do and teach things I did not believe in or to fly the UN flag along side the US flag. And it is also encroaching on our federal gov't and even in the states and municipalities where I think I posted Agenda 21 info about how they want that implemented. (things like FEMA counting rooms in the house, etc)

I don't spend ANY time researching the NWO because I know enough about it. I simply did some research today to educate those who saw the movie and were introduced to the concept of world gov't for the first time.

If government doesn't work, then what do their plans matter?  Do you think they take our plans seriously?  If so, why haven't they assassinated the head of the FSP?  (Sorry Varrin!)  That ought to strike some terror into those upstarts!

Their plans matter because as I said, they ARE being put into effect and in some places by force. Just look at the national park system! Consider what happened to the kids in East Stroudsberg PA. My gosh, you can't deny it.. and the masses are sleeping while it happens.

I'll give them attention when they come looking for their taxes, because they aren't getting them.

It may be too late by then. What will  you do after they have violated your children's rights?

I'm against the UN, but I feel no need to "expose" them.  They are illegitimate, and I did not grant them authority.  End of story.  If they try to impose taxes, I will refuse.  If they try to impose "order", I will disobey and fight.

Well good but I fear you don't expose what you don't understand and that is just how ingrained they are in all gov'ts all over the world, especially in the US who sends them the most money.

You're right, that was uncalled for, though I think I directed it at Tunga.  American xenophobia does tend to be based in racism....

Well you have never met me so how can you accuse me of racism? I have never denied anyone a job, or to be my friend, or to enter my home or anything else, because of their race. It's really not a very nice thing to say that about someone you don't even know. It just reminds me of the lefties when they pull out the race card because they can't or won't discuss what stuff means instead. It's a personal attack...and has no place in the dialog. The paranoia about borders is more a paranoia of the condition and what it is indicative of in the big picture as was told about in the movie, NOT of the people themselves. I am sure I would like those people on a personal level. I worked in a place with 50% brown skinned people most of my career. So please, let's not stoop to any more personal attacks.

[CNHT]

I didn't doubt your dedication.  Most NWO-ites spend all their time "researching".  I didn't suggest that's all you did, but thanks for clarifying.

I really am not a NWO-ite.
I just am aware that there are other forces at work on our federal, state and local gov't and educational systems that are from without the USA...and they are to be taken seriously.
Otherwise, all that flag burning is for nothing.

[tracysaboe]

What Ian I think doesn't quite understand, is that we don't live in a "truly free land." And that there needs to be a certain order of opporations in bring about liberty. Advocating for open boarders, before we get rid of welfore, affirmative actions, etc is asking for more statism and trouble.

Tracy

Murray Rothbard used to ask his students if there was a button in front of them and by pressing it they could end the existance of government immediatly, would they press it and deal with the 'shakeout', or, not press it and wait for the 'orderly' dissolution of authority.
The right answer is: press the button  because the continuous 24/7 oppression by the government and it's laws is worse than the 'shakeout' that would follow.
I agree with Rothbard, although I don't think he and his students would have made it out of Manhattan alive if they pressed the button

And Rothbard would be right.

But allowing open boarders and NOT doing everything else to bring about true liberty is quite different. From bringing about complete liberty all at once. It's not going to come down all at once. And because of this, we need to make sure it's done in the correct order.

Allowing open boarders w/o fixing the other statism is actually going to make that other statism far worse.

Tracy

[FTL_Ian]

"Racist" is wrong.  Perhaps I should use a different term.  Can someone help me here?  What do you call someone who supports forcing people through an annoying bureaucratic process full of paperwork, threats, and hurdles simply because they weren't lucky enough to be born within a certain piece of land?

Elitist?

It may be too late by then. What will  you do after they have violated your children's rights?

It's never too late to stand up for Liberty.  By the way, I have a vasectomy, so no kids for me unless I adopt!   

[tracysaboe]

In regards to Tracy's earlier comment, OF COURSE I want to end welfare prior to opening the borders.  It would be foolish to do one without the other.

Well that's good.

Ian, Even Ron Paul talks about the Threat of the U.N. The UNSCO is like a UN school board and many of the policies in government schools come down from them. The U.N.  on a yearly basis, tries to get away with implimenting an international income tax, and in tries to claim jurisdiction over international courts, etc.

You are correct though. Private militians and networks of independend security companies would be much more efficient and hence much better able to defend us from the U.N. then the U.S. government. (Like the U.S. would even try to defend us.) But even a NH military say if NH seceded but perhaps not in a libertarian/anarchist maner would be more efficient then a federal army.

Tracy