50 of us will outnumber the Keene Police!

[FTL_Ian]

Interesting knowledge for future events:

http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/police/rosters.htm





How about something like this for the future:

KFP reporters with a video camera meet with the Chief and Sheriff and ask them to go voluntarily funded...

[Russell Kanning]

....and we have too many cops in our city.

[tracysaboe]

How Big is Keene?

Tracy

[Fluff and Stuff]

How Big is Keene?

Tracy

Seriously, use google.

http://www.google.com

http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/
http://www.hometownusa.com/nh/Keene.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Keene-New-Hampshire.html

[tracysaboe]

22,563

Fine. I just thought somebody who lives there might know it off the top of their heads.

Don't be so grumpy TN.

Back to the topic at hand.

Do you think it'd be possible to convince 50 people (50 people -- they can't take all of us on.) to refuse to pay their property taxes?

50 people all spread out around the town.  There's no WAY they'd be able to rade all those homes and steal them. 

You just need 50 people! (well, actually 50 seperate residences.)

Do you think you could find 50 people in a city of 22 thousand who own their own property and refuse to pay taxes?

You might even get a few landlords tell all their tenants and they'll lower their rent if the tenent doesn't mind the land-lord not paying property taxes.

Tracy

[Fluff and Stuff]

22,563

Fine. I just thought somebody who lives there might know it off the top of their heads.

Don't be so grumpy TN.

You are welcome 

[tracysaboe]

Thank you 

Tracy

[KBCraig]

Do you think it'd be possible to convince 50 people (50 people -- they can't take all of us on.) to refuse to pay their property taxes?

50 people all spread out around the town.  There's no WAY they'd be able to rade all those homes and steal them.

Sure they would: one home at a time, where the odds are 50:1 or 50:2, then move on to the next home.

[Russell Kanning]

I think 50 could decide to stop writing those checks. I think the way we get there is 1 by 1.
I agree with KB .... they can gang up on us ...... or even get reinforcements.
In NoLA cops from other states were disarming the populace.

[d_goddard]

"outnumber the cops"...?
*sigh* 

Brute force and mass numbers.
The typical, brutish, mobocratic tactics of the CD crowd.

Rather than use respectful discussion and educational engagement,
rather than peacefully and resolutely winning the hearts and minds of the locals,
the childish path of emotion over reason.

The heavy-handed tactics that the overwhelming majority of NH locals -- who will always outnumber us by ten-thousand fold -- find absolutely revolting, thereby making it exponentially harder for us to actually get the desired changes effected.

If your strategy centers on engaging, educating, and helping NH natives, you will win hearts and minds -- think "Marshall Plan".
If your strategy centers on taking to the streets with (to the average onlooker) outrageous theatrics and immediate demands -- think "Afghani quagmire".

Liberty was lost by freedom's opponents winning in step-by-step increments.
Liberty will be returned in that fashion as well... or not at all.

[FTL_Ian]

Before you start going off the deep end, Denis.  What I had in mind when I got this info was a mass public smoke-out.

Considering that the best place for such a thing to happen would be in front of the Police Department, it seemed like a good idea to check the numbers.

Do you consider that "heavy handed" or "brute force"?  I just consider it pot smokers coming out of the closet.

[d_goddard]

Before you start going off the deep end, Denis.

Waaaay too late for that. The deep end is usually where I start. But y'all knew that

What I had in mind when I got this info was a mass public smoke-out.
Do you consider that "heavy handed" or "brute force"?

Depends on how it is managed.
Depends on how the mom & pop folks in Keene take to it.

I think of Michael's "outlaw manicure" as the perfect, elegant CD.
He did his research, he knew what he was doing and the relevant RSA's.
He did not depend on a "mob" presence and had the bravery to know he was going to jail.
It was an act that every single person -- no matter how "normal" -- could look at, and realize: "the police are acting like thugs here. It ain't right!"

I am not so sure those same, average folks won't see "a bunch of damn hippies demanding that they can smoke dope", and then be turned off by the whole thing.

Needs more subtlely. Just my humble opinion.

[FTL_Ian]

Denis, you should know better.  Not all pot smokers are "hippies", and that would be a key part of the protest, having "regular" looking people, members of the community that other people know, out there smoking.  Not just dreadlocked tye-dye wearers!

I'd love your input on what you'd consider an ideal "coming out" pot protest.

[d_goddard]

Denis, you should know better.  Not all pot smokers are "hippies"

I, of all people, do indeed know that for sure. 

that would be a key part of the protest, having "regular" looking people, members of the community that other people know, out there smoking.  Not just dreadlocked tye-dye wearers!

Amen, brother (using "amen" in the truly solemn way only atheists can )

I'd love your input on what you'd consider an ideal "coming out" pot protest.

I'm glad you asked
You want a protest? Hell, come join us (yes, us, including me) at the MassCan rally on September 16th in Boston. There will be thousands of people there. many will be smoking pot. And, like all the MassCan rallies, and like all the NORML rallies, over the past 25+ years. They're fun, they're a useful place to meet & educate people about Freedom, but like the LP, they haven't made a direct effect on one single state.

My suggestion: don't make it a "protest" in the old, tired, hasn't-worked-for-the-last-30-years sense.
Instead, make it an "activist action" in the connected, FSP, has-been-tried-and-succeeded sense.

Let's start with what we can all agree on: in the immediate term, we want people to be able to make a personal choice about their own marijuana use, without being interfered with by the police. We want many other things related to this, but this we certainly agree on. Moreover, many upstanding NH residents can agree to this 'live-and-let-live' policy on principle, even if they themselves think MJ is a Really Bad Idea (in the same way you think alcohol is a Really Bad Idea, though of course the case against alcohol stands up to scientific scrutiny, whereas the case against MJ does not)

A bill is expected to come up next session, that would decriminalize "personal-use" amounts of MJ.
You, like me, and like many fine residents of NH, want the police to stop spending their time and our money arresting peaceful pot smokers.
The most direct way to make that happen is to get this bill passed.

In turn, the most effective way to get this bill passed is to have dozens and dozens of fine, respectable, articulate people appear before the relevant legislative committees, and make their case there.

If we can have a stream of responsible, respectable people: doctors, lawyers, mothers, fathers, homeowners, city workers, restaurant workers, people who lend a hand at the Salvation Army food drive, people who volunteer at the animal shelter... all of them dressed nicely, speaking curteously but firmly, and insisting that their right to choose what they do on their own property, that hurts nobody other than themselves, is guaranteed by the US and NH Constitutions. Have them organize their thoughts ahead of time, make their points brief but memorable, briefly share any personal stories, and maybe even practice their speeches on each other a few times before facing the commitee (which is often intimidating, even though it shouldn't be -- just like calling in to radio programs)

Get these people and those who agree with us to send waves of LTEs to every newspaper in the State.
Get them to call, write letters, and email their Reps and Senators.
Ensure that the entire movement is done peacefully, respectfully, and 100% fully within the current existing law.

Join us liberty-lovers all together in doing the above, and the chances are very good that by this time next year, we'll be using this victory as yet another, even more powerful reason for liberty-lovers to come to New Hampshire now.

I am so sure this will work, because that's exactly how it has worked in the other states where personal-use MJ has been legalized, and it's exactly how we killed a smoking ban despite the best efforts of well-funded, organized political lobbyists.

What do you say?
So crazy it just might work?
Worth a shot?

[FTL_Ian]

I think I've made it clear I have not given up on politics in NH.  It's definitely worth a shot.

It wouldn't be fair of me to be jaded about NH politics because of my negative experience in FL.  I'm still jaded in general towards politics, but I have not ruled it out for NH.  From what I can tell, the political realm is very different there.  I think the dual-pronged approach is necessary, CD/Protests and Politics.

How many people get arrested at MassCann?  I don't know if I want to spend time in jail in MA.