Al Gore calls for a tax shift...

[tracysaboe]

GMU university?  The petition organized by scientists at the University of Oregon?

There are many scientists who disagree.

But even if global warming were happening there's no proof that it's man-made.

But even if t IS man-made, Socialism isn't going to fix it. It's just going to impoverish everybody to the point where they won't be able to afford to care about the environment anymore. And people will be less able to handle the "catastrophies" that global warming might cause when and if it does happen because of that poverty.

Tracy

[FrankChodorov]

But even if t IS man-made, Socialism isn't going to fix it.

whose suggesting socialism?

I am suggesting property rights be used to solve it - the absolute property rights to the fruits of our labor that are being robbed by the imposition of negative externalities.

[Caleb]

I think we should encourage it.  Maybe I can start a "Global Warming Project" or something like that to figure out ways to accelerate the process.  The earth is far too cold as it is.  Historically, we're just coming out of an ice age.

Caleb

[FrankChodorov]

I think we should encourage it.  Maybe I can start a "Global Warming Project" or something like that to figure out ways to accelerate the process.  The earth is far too cold as it is.  Historically, we're just coming out of an ice age.

you're playing with fire...

[Dreepa]

I think that we are doing something to affect our environment ( Do I don't think the hurricaines are our fault).  But our emissions have to be doing something.  To what extent I don't know.

However having said that I think it is up to individuals to live the lifestyle that reflects it and to persuade others to do the same.
I mean why are companies going green?  Because they want to look good to consumers.  That is the best pressure.. Money.

Don't have the govt try to fix anything.... because they can't and won't.

[FrankChodorov]

I think that we are doing something to affect our environment ( Do I don't think the hurricaines are our fault).  But our emissions have to be doing something.  To what extent I don't know.

However having said that I think it is up to individuals to live the lifestyle that reflects it and to persuade others to do the same.
I mean why are companies going green?  Because they want to look good to consumers.  That is the best pressure.. Money.

Don't have the govt try to fix anything.... because they can't and won't.

the problem is that the system of privilege we have set-up wildly incentivizes unsustainable behavior because simply treating the natural commons as private capital (prior to labor "unowned") alllows costs to be shifted off the individual as benefits are acrrued (in this case to use the sky as a dump) and onto society.

therefore our pricing system at the point of sale can not account for negative externalities.

the answer is not further regulations but rather to end privilege by enforcing our absolute rights to the fruits of our labor.

shifting negative externalities onto society is a tax in kind but not in name...from those who are privately enclosing onto those excluding.

this is the EXACT same argument Thomas Knapp the founder of the radical caucus within the LP (called Boston Tea Party) makes(which I posted here earlier)...except he calls the externalities/tax a "fee" because he want the externality to be collected and directly refunded to everyone equal...

this is nothing more than a citizens dividend and combined with Charles Murray's "basic income guarantee" that Jason Sorens endorsed (he also came out on the FSP board recently endorsing the global warming/man made hypothesis as irrefutable) you can't start to see a consensus left libertarian strategy emerging

[FrankChodorov]

I don't think the hurricaines are our fault

not our fault for their origins but our fault for the increased frequency and intensity...

[Dreepa]

this is nothing more than a citizens dividend and combined with Charles Murray's "basic income guarantee" that Jason Sorens endorsed (he also came out on the FSP board recently endorsing the global warming/man made hypothesis as irrefutable) you can't start to see a consensus left libertarian strategy emerging

Well maybe Jason is being corrupted because he is in NY.

[FrankChodorov]

this is nothing more than a citizens dividend and combined with Charles Murray's "basic income guarantee" that Jason Sorens endorsed (he also came out on the FSP board recently endorsing the global warming/man made hypothesis as irrefutable) you can't start to see a consensus left libertarian strategy emerging

Well maybe Jason is being corrupted because he is in NY.

no - he did careful review of all the peer review articles in legitimate scientific journals and came to  his own conclusion.

the evidence is overwhelming for those who take the time to look at the scientific data in peer review journals...

[FrankChodorov]

this is nothing more than a citizens dividend and combined with Charles Murray's "basic income guarantee" that Jason Sorens endorsed (he also came out on the FSP board recently endorsing the global warming/man made hypothesis as irrefutable) you can't start to see a consensus left libertarian strategy emerging

Well maybe Jason is being corrupted because he is in NY.

no - he did careful review of all the peer review articles in legitimate scientific journals and came to  his own conclusion.

the evidence is overwhelming for those who take the time to look at the scientific data in peer review journals...

btw - he said something akin to those with their head in sand will be on the wrong side of history (like the slavery debate) and that was directed at folks in the FSP.

[Dreepa]

btw - he said something akin to those with their head in sand will be on the wrong side of history (like the slavery debate) and that was directed at folks in the FSP.

He can say whatever the fuck he wants.
I am not going to even suggest ANY Federal legislation. (Wasn't his idea to free NH first?)  I have shit to do in NH.
Fuck BIG.

Isn't that the song:

'Money for nothin' and my chicks for free'?

Just because you are on this planet doesn't mean you deserve money.... It is as simple as that. 
Union people get money for nothing... lower productivity.
Communism countries had people get money for nothing. Not such a good track record do they?
Welfare people.... most don't do shit or care to.. why should they?  Money for nothin'.

If a farmer owns land and just makes enough food for himself and family he has to pay economic rent? With what? He has no cash.

Jason can talk about BIG all he wants.  I doubt he will find MANY in the FSP who will help him in his futile crusade.

[FrankChodorov]

in the case of global warming it is not "money for nothing"...

it is compensation for being subjected to negative externalities which violate your right of self-ownership.

[CNHT]

I think we should encourage it.  Maybe I can start a "Global Warming Project" or something like that to figure out ways to accelerate the process.  The earth is far too cold as it is.  Historically, we're just coming out of an ice age.

Caleb

LOL I'm already hot.

[CNHT]

I think we should encourage it.  Maybe I can start a "Global Warming Project" or something like that to figure out ways to accelerate the process.  The earth is far too cold as it is.  Historically, we're just coming out of an ice age.

you're playing with fire...

You're not playing with a full deck. Frank, sorry, the whole point is WE DON'T CARE about your theories and your ideas for your little cult of Vermont Commons.
I think people have seen enough of your baloney to finally realize what I said in my very first posts about your whole 'system' and your fanaticism about trying to get people to see that only your way is correct, a very dangerous thing for liberty indeed.

[Dreepa]

in the case of global warming it is not "money for nothing"...

it is compensation for being subjected to negative externalities which violate your right of self-ownership.

Not everyone believes that.  It is a THEORY.  Just like COMMUNISM and FACISM are theories of government.  I don't like those two.  Maybe a smaller country would be great to start georgism.  Then if it works there great.  We can use it as a model. 
I would love to see it done in VT and have NH be a libertarian state.
See what works out best.