RUSSELL FREED

[Michael Fisher]

I guess I disagree with you Mike. I don't see any reason for me to resort to violence .... no matter how bad the government gets or if they shut down all media. But I can understand why some people (including you) would be ready to fight to the death if that happens.

That old quote is from a time prior to my conversion. Now I will do my best to never violate God's commandments, and I do not plan to commit violence (in thought, word, or deed) even in self-defense.

"I believe that aggression is a vast concept and violence can be done even to the spirit of another.  That is why nonviolence is a very large and difficult goal.  It is difficult to reject aggression in all its forms, but I am working as hard as I can."
(June 9, 2005)

[FTL_Ian]

Wow, not even in self defense?  I abhor violence, but I do like to live.  If self defensive force will keep me alive, I'll use every bit I can.

[Michael Fisher]

Wow, not even in self defense?  I abhor violence, but I do like to live.  If self defensive force will keep me alive, I'll use every bit I can.

Yeah, I know it's a big change. But that's what the commandments of Jesus say from my interpretation, so there's really nothing I can do about it.

Naturally, pacifism isn't for everyone. That's why I provided my old quote on nonviolence for those here. IMO, Christians are supposed to be much different than everyone else, so I will not push pacifism on anyone. Nonviolence, on the other hand, I will do my best to promote, as I have been doing for the past 15 months.

[tracysaboe]

And if the reason they arrested you was bcause you "said" you were goinog to do something, then they're violating your freedom of speach.

you have no freedom of speech rights in the IRS building...
you have no right to disrupt the business being transacted at the IRS building...

if you are asked what your intent is, you tell them (and all evidence supports what you say is going to happen) then they say you can't cross this line with the intent to disrupt the business being transacted in the IRS you will be arrested...99.98% of the public will support the officers arresting you - sorry to be the messenger of bad news Russell!

Well see -- even granting your insain premise, he wasn't even in the IRS building when he made the comment. The Comment was in the KEene free press several days or better prior.

Bill, you're a moron. That's a fact. Go play with your enviro-commies in Vermont.

Tracy

[tracysaboe]

I guess I disagree with you Mike. I don't see any reason for me to resort to violence .... no matter how bad the government gets or if they shut down all media. But I can understand why some people (including you) would be ready to fight to the death if that happens.

That old quote is from a time prior to my conversion. Now I will do my best to never violate God's commandments, and I do not plan to commit violence (in thought, word, or deed) even in self-defense.

"I believe that aggression is a vast concept and violence can be done even to the spirit of another.  That is why nonviolence is a very large and difficult goal.  It is difficult to reject aggression in all its forms, but I am working as hard as I can."
(June 9, 2005)

I guess for me, as a Christian, I'm called upon to protect my Family. If the only method to do that, is violence in self defence, I guess I don't have a problem with that.

I suppose if I was completely unattached though I might be a pacifist.

Tracy

[FrankChodorov]

he wasn't even in the IRS building when he made the comment.

I believe he was...the second time he came back without the pamphlets when he was arrested on the stairs leading to the IRS offices

[Caleb]

Well, Frank, after further review, Russell left enough speech for others in good enough condition ...

Therefore, no foul, the play stands as called!  TOUCHDOWN!

Caleb

sorry, I'm getting into football mode

[FrankChodorov]

it's "enough and as good"

I hope Vinatieri chokes this season...

[earthhaven]

Well, Frank, after further review, Russell left enough speech for others in good enough condition ...

Therefore, no foul, the play stands as called!  TOUCHDOWN!

Caleb

sorry, I'm getting into football mode

[/quote]

[Dave Ridley]

Called the Fed Marshall Gary Dimartino to follow up regarding whether he tried to check in on russell, as he indicated he would do.    Left voice mail.

Perhaps russell was free before he had a chance to talk to him, but i do think it's important to follow up.

[Dave Ridley]

I am serious.
The government is killing people and some of you are worried that I am angry and violent for even contemplating disrupting the IRS office. Do you know that the IRS breaks down people's doors and steals stuff?

I didn't say you would be violating ZAP, I only said you're being neither nonviolent nor Christian about your methods, but you're still claiming to be following both systems of principles when, in my opinion, you're not.

I'm bringing up the principles upon which our nonviolent movement was founded and you're not rationally responding to my reasoning. Have we not worked together (quite successfully) from the very beginning up to this point? If you will not listen to me, then who will you listen to about your methods of change?

Here's something I said about this 15 months ago after my act of nonviolent noncooperation and prior to helping you organize your own act a few weeks later. This is very applicable today:



If there is enough freedom of the press, and the government is not actively slaughtering people, then violence is unnecessary and counterproductive.  Most freedom can be won through nonviolent noncooperation.  Unlike Gandhi, I realize that when the press is silenced and the people are being slaughtered, it is time to take up arms and fight to the death for our freedom.

Take China for example.  Civil disobedience would probably work well in China while violence would only accelerate the growth of the Chinese government.  Indeed, civil disobediece is the only thing that has ever worked there before, but there was no significant follow-up after Tiananmen Square and the man blocking a column of tanks.  The movement could have spread enormously, but the people decided to value their lives more than their liberty, and so their liberty was never won.

Gandhi took his principles too far, and once said that the British should lay down their arms and allow the Nazis to take over their country, as long as they refused their support.  However, the Nazis had a complete media blackout, as far as I know, and they slaughtered countless people at will.

Gandhi understood that civil disobedience is impossible in an atmosphere of violence but he still could not realize this mistaken judgement of Nazi Germany.  However, we understand, and that is what's important.

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong but better so than not to be exercised at all."  - Thomas Jefferson

We have a case here of russell exercising rebellion imperfectly , but *exercising* it.  that's the important thing, to me.

[cathleeninnh]

We have a case here of russell exercising rebellion imperfectly , but *exercising* it.  that's the important thing, to me.

Karma for Dada as well as Russell

[Dave Ridley]

No response from Dimartino yet....looks like it's been about 3 days.  Of course, in a sense I like it when feds do nothing, but they had a good chance to do nothing when russell walked into the IRS office, and chose not to.

[Kat Kanning]

Someone could go in there and ask for their form to complain about an officer. 

[d_goddard]

Someone could go in there and ask for their form to complain about an officer. 

Be sure and bring a VHS tape!
Don't tell 'em you have anything on the tape, just see if they'll seize it.
Maybe the tape should be a copy of the "Busted" video, or a John Stossel "Freedom in America" special