Anarchists and the Environment

[Dreepa]

Ok so the Anarchists get what they want, No govt.

Everything (lakes, land, rivers, oceans etc) are privately owned.

What stops Company X from polluting the air?  No one owns the air right?

(no georgist answers  --- I just want to hear how the anarchists would solve this problem-- if they think it might be a problem).

[Caleb]

Probably someone who hadn't yet learned not to resist evil by force would mosey on over and explain to them that if they didn't quit polluting the water, bad things would start happening to them. 

[aries]

lack of funding

barring that, nothing

People always try to nab me when I say on an anarchist with stupid things like "well how do we catch murderers" or "who will control the amount of water people use in places like nevada?" to which my answers are respectively, you'll pay out the ass, and nobody will.

[Dreepa]

Probably someone who hadn't yet learned not to resist evil by force would mosey on over and explain to them that if they didn't quit polluting the water, bad things would start happening to them. 

Isn't that a threat of force which many of them say they don't initiate force?

[Dreepa]

lack of funding

barring that, nothing

People always try to nab me when I say on an anarchist with stupid things like "well how do we catch murderers" or "who will control the amount of water people use in places like nevada?" to which my answers are respectively, you'll pay out the ass, and nobody will.

I am confused aries.
I agree with you on water (someone will sell it to them).
Police... there will probably be private police as well as militia.

[Caleb]

Well, you're talking about two different things, Dreep.  One is anarchism, which may, or may not, be pacifist (that's why I like to use the term voluntarist to describe a peaceful sort of anarchist.) The other is pacifism, which is what many of us on this board practice, or at least a strong non-aggression principle.

Obviously, you are describing a world in which anarchism exists, but non-aggression does not (as witnessed by the fact that people are dumping pollutants into the water in your hypothetical world). If this is the case, I'm sure there will be people on the other side of the equation who would be more than happy to resist evil by force.  Once all men are angels ... then the solution goes away, but so does the problem.

Caleb

[FrankChodorov]

you buy an insurance policy against polluted air...

[Dreepa]

you buy an insurance policy against polluted air...

[Gabo]

you buy an insurance policy against polluted air...

Winner!

[aries]

I am confused aries.
I agree with you on water (someone will sell it to them).
Police... there will probably be private police as well as militia.

And you'll pay quite a bit to use them I'm sure.

Vengnace will become a rich man's privelege

[tracysaboe]

apparently knowbody here is aware of how polution used to be handled beck before teddy rosevelt. If you polute the air, and it damages somebody's property, that's a tort.

It's real simple.

Infact I'm sure systems of air-property rights would be developed by now if government didn't claim it owned the air.

Tracy

[David]

I am confused aries.
I agree with you on water (someone will sell it to them).
Police... there will probably be private police as well as militia.

And you'll pay quite a bit to use them I'm sure.

Vengnace will become a rich man's privelege

When someone does something to damage your property or your self, that is first strike aggression.  You have the right to use retaliatory force to make aggressors pay restitution, including the cost to aprehend and imprisson an uncooperative aggressor.  It is very concievable privite detectives would go after aggressors for the purpose of receiving some of the restitution. 

Under anarcism there isn't really a difference between petty or criminal.  Where there is a victim, there is a perp who has the moral responsibility to pay his debt to his victim. 

[FrankChodorov]

if government didn't claim it owned the air.

it doesn't...

[aries]

I imagine in anarchy air pollution would be handled by public pressure

which doesn't always work

So maybe we'd all die of lung cancer

Better than having government

[tracysaboe]

if government didn't claim it owned the air.

it doesn't...

It does de facto.

Tracy