Alternative means of certiorari?

[Edwin Sheldon]

I was not sure where to post this topic.  Moderators, if this forum is inappropriate for this thread, please move this thread!

I was thinking about how the federal legislature has run rampant on the Constitution, and how it nearly takes an act of God to get the Supreme Court to even hear a case, let alone defend the Constitution when it does.  At present, Congress can pass any unconstitutional law it wants, and the law can only be overturned by the Supreme Court if someone submits a petition for writ of certiorari, i.e. feels he has been wronged under the law and challenges it in the various courts, from the lowest level all the way up to SCOTUS.  To me, this is flawed, because the constitutionality of laws is not immediately questioned.

I then thought about how I might devise a state or federal constitution to fix the problem.  (Not that I favor having much government in the first place, but a government restrained by a constitution and a judiciary is certainly better than the status quo!)

One possible solution I came up with is to have a judiciary house in the legislature, comprised of a few (say, eleven or so) persons who have at some point served as a judge at a lower level in the state.  (I approached this at the state level for now.)  Whenever the other house(s) of the legislature pass a measure, it must immediately be sent to the judicial house, who must read the measure and vote on its constitutionality.  Ideally, the vote should be unanimous.  If all the members of the judicial house agree the measure does not violate the state's constitution, the measure passes.  If not, the measure fails, with all members who objected to the measure submitting an opinion as to why the measure would violate the constitution.

Opinions?  Ideally, should NH secede and decide to adopt a new constitution, I would like to see at least some more pro-active method of challenging the constitutionality of legislation.

[eques]

Challenge the authority of the Constitution instead.

[svillee]

I agree that the constitution should be strictly enforced, and unconstitutional bills should be voided as soon as possible.  A few years back, I posted an article called An Unabased Plutocracy.  My proposed change #4 dealt specifically with the issue of voiding unconstitutional bills.

Each congressman would have to deposit a large sum of money (e.g., $500,000) with a special federal escrow agency prior to being elected.  When a congressman proposed a bill, any citizen or group of citizens could challenge the constitutionality of the bill, even though it had not passed yet, and even though the bill would not necessarily affect those citizens personally.  However, the citizen or group of citizens would have to post the same large sum of money with the federal escrow agency.

The case would then go to the Supreme Court, and the loser would forfeit his sum of money to the winner.  If the congressman lost, he would not be allowed to propose any further bills until he had deposited that much money again, to replace the forfeited money.

My reasoning is that congressmen are perfectly aware that their bills are unconstitutional.  What they need is a strong personal incentive not to propose them.

[Edwin Sheldon]

My biggest objection would be the requirement that every congressman be rich enough (or receive enough kickbacks from lobbyists) to have half a million dollars lying around after he has spent money on his campaign.  True, most members of Congress are members of the elite, but your proposal requires them to be.

And, given the lack of a commodity standard currency, the impact of the loss decreases rapidly every year. 

[Bald Eagle]

The bill should pass the Constitutionality test on the state level, but also not violate anything in the Constitution for the independent but united States as well.

I want to see legislators get ARRESTED for fraud, theft, breach of contract, betrayal of the public trust, and being accessories before and after the fact and conspiracy to commit murder.

It should simply be a CRIME to write, vote for, incite people to vote for,  or conspire to write laws abridging or infringing upon the natural God given Rights of people.  we'll call it something catchy, like TREASON.

The people should have real accountability from legislators.  When we ask a question, or write a letter concerning a real issue we have as a result of legislation or public policies, we should be able to demand a clear, complete, and concise answer in a timely manner.


I don't put money in an escrow account to be confiscated when I violate some stupid statute, they come and arrest me.  The same system ought to work reasonably well for legislators, and stockades are cheaper than prisons.

[Lloyd Danforth]

During the later Vietnam war years the Army ran out of jails.  They would  wrap chainlink fence and Concertina wire around an area with some barracks, a mess hall and anything that would pass for an administration building, and, call it a stockade.

[Bald Eagle]

I meant a medieval stockade.  Hang big signs saying TRAITOR around their necks.

[error]

Once we turn loose all the nonviolent drug offenders who never did anything wrong, we'll have plenty of prison space for all the violent government offenders.

[Fragilityh14]

Once we turn loose all the nonviolent drug offenders who never did anything wrong, we'll have plenty of prison space for all the violent government offenders.

wouldn't that be a glorious day.

imagine life with drugs out of the black market.

[Bald Eagle]

Government traitors don't deserve the luxury or the privacy of a jail cell.

They should burn in the sun and shiver in the dark and endure public identification and humiliation.  I want to be able to sit in a comfy chair with a scotch on the rocks and a cuban cigar and berate them for hours about initiating force against others and just being a despicable scumbag in general.  Then I'll take a short break until someone gets me all riled up again.  Say, 30 seconds or so.

Or they could just take the easy punishment for treason and hang from the lampposts until crows pick the flesh from their fat, rotting carcasses.  That'll get the ones coming in from Mass to turn around and get the hell out.