Direct Action for Open Borders

[CNHT]

What if I want to hire someone, pay them in cash, and say fuck off to the IRS and ICE?

That's the way I'd prefer to work..

Here is another real situation I'd like you to consider, especially if you are one of those people who is going to vote for the first time because of Ron Paul:

Somehow that invite to the NH straw poll got on MySpace. Trouble is, the straw poll is to see what likely NH voters will do in the NH primary.

Now we aren't going to stop people from coming into the picnic because they will want to see the other candidates, but, well, sorry to say, the poll is supposed to see who of the first in the nation state will vote for whom.

So, I'm going to have to deal with that.

Otherwise, why bother having elections if 50,000 Venezuelans can come here and vote and then go home?

[Quantrill]

Look at the bright side - the more "illegals" (I'll use that term in quotations from now on) we let in the sooner the 
  (more and more taxes, higher and higher cost of living due to population explosion, scarcity of resources, higher crime due to countries shipping their criminals here since we would not screen them first etc...).  Open borders would help speed up the process and while I don't advocate Anarchy, at least it would be better than what we currently have.

Once the  people from other countries will probably not want to come here anymore, so everyone on this forum would then be happy...

[Caleb]

Jane, no offense, but do you actually know any illegal immigrants?

Because I've worked with them (with a church, assisting them with basic needs, translation, etc). And I can tell you, in my experience, I've never yet met an illegal immigrant who even thought of trying to vote. They're scared to death of the government, and try to hide from them whenever possible. It is difficult to convince them to seek the help of the police when they are victims of a crime, because of that fear, and for that reason they are often targeted.

There is no way that ANY of the immigrants I know of personally would be so cavalier as to walk in to a clerks office, register to vote, then come back and stand in line while numerous officious looking people stand around. NO WAY! They would avoid that situation like the plague.

[CNHT]

Look at the bright side - the more "illegals" (I'll use that term in quotations from now on) we let in the sooner the 
  (more and more taxes, higher and higher cost of living due to population explosion, scarcity of resources, higher crime due to countries shipping their criminals here since we would not screen them first etc...).  Open borders would help speed up the process and while I don't advocate Anarchy, at least it would be better than what we currently have.

Once the  people from other countries will probably not want to come here anymore, so everyone on this forum would then be happy...

LOL...

Well it's a testament to how crappy other countries are that their residents all want to come here. You need some good capitalism for socialism to feed off of...
Because as you well know, 'rights' =  money... heck that is how they advertise it. Tell them about the free health care.

[CNHT]

Jane, no offense, but do you actually know any illegal immigrants?

You mean the ones in my own family? Or the ones that I worked with for 40 years that relied on me for everything from translations to fixing their cars?

Because I've worked with them (with a church, assisting them with basic needs, translation, etc). And I can tell you, in my experience, I've never yet met an illegal immigrant who even thought of trying to vote. They're scared to death of the government, and try to hide from them whenever possible. It is difficult to convince them to seek the help of the police when they are victims of a crime, because of that fear, and for that reason they are often targeted.

There is no way that ANY of the immigrants I know of personally would be so cavalier as to walk in to a clerks office, register to vote, then come back and stand in line while numerous officious looking people stand around. NO WAY! They would avoid that situation like the plague.

Well that's interesting because while some might be afraid to vote, we caught a woman from Canada voting, TWICE, in the last election.
So she decides to go back to her home in Canada and YOUR community get stuck with the taxes...

My aunt was not a citizen for many years, and then she finally applied to be one so she could vote for Clinton.... LOL

[CNHT]

Hey I just got a huge laugh...

I am on MySpace just to join Ron Paul's group....and I have everyone under 18 blocked...It's not really my cup of tea, the messiest most horrid site I've seen yet, but someone just sent me this funny message (a guy) that made me laugh out loud!

He said:

"hello there hows it going i was wondering if you would lock me into the trunk of your car some time"


LOL!

[jaqeboy]

There is no way that ANY of the immigrants I know of personally would be so cavalier as to walk in to a clerks office, register to vote, then come back and stand in line while numerous officious looking people stand around. NO WAY! They would avoid that situation like the plague.

Well that's interesting because while some might be afraid to vote, we caught a woman from Canada voting, TWICE, in the last election.
So she decides to go back to her home in Canada and YOUR community get stuck with the taxes...

So, I guess that proves we should divert the money for the Southwestern wall up to the Northern border to keep those lyin', cheatin', sleazy Canucks out, eh? It wasn't those dam Mes'cans after all!

[CNHT]

So, I guess that proves we should divert the money for the Southwestern wall up to the Northern border to keep those lyin', cheatin', sleazy Canucks out, eh? It wasn't those dam Mes'cans after all!

Not sure I understand what you are talking about, but I just know I would not go to Canada and try to vote up the taxes in her town and then come home and not help pay for them.

Plus I don't think it's necessary to use the word 'Canuck'...do you? It has to do with citizenship not nationalities.

[FTL_Ian]

Jane's argumentation tactics:

If a question is asked that comes too close to questioning her belief system she will ignore it, obfuscate it, and misdirect her commentary to something completely unrelated.

She will then, based on evidence only available in her mind, accuse you of being a socialist.



Note that she has not successfully answered any of Caleb's questions...

[Russell Kanning]

based on her answers to caleb ... I think she is a socialist

[Russell Kanning]

Somalia's a hellhole precisely because people are trying to establish government there.

That's the downside to anarchy: thugs will always try to fill the vacuum.

lack of thugs in charge seems to attract thugs

but for that brief shining moment .... while we wait for the thugs to show up ... oh what bliss.

[Russell Kanning]

So, I guess that proves we should divert the money for the Southwestern wall up to the Northern border to keep those lyin', cheatin', sleazy Canucks out, eh? It wasn't those dam Mes'cans after all!

We have a distinct american culture here of non-voting. We shouldn't let in those voters in here to abuse us.

[CNHT]

Jane's argumentation tactics:

If a question is asked that comes too close to questioning her belief system she will ignore it, obfuscate it, and misdirect her commentary to something completely unrelated.

She will then, based on evidence only available in her mind, accuse you of being a socialist.



Note that she has not successfully answered any of Caleb's questions...

I think I have said that I have come to the conclusion that I happen to think 'open borders' contributes to socialism and you others don't.
We simply disagree on the means to the same end.

Likewise for those of you who think freedom is to be achieved by not voting, what were you doing at the fundraiser? It's a slap in the face to those who have raised thousands of dollars and otherwise given up much of their time and energy to promote a worthy candidate.

[Caleb]

I donated a pretty fair amount to Ron, and spent some time helping his campaign. I also intend to vote for him in the primary, and in the general (if he gets that far.)

Does that mean I have to agree with his fascist nonsense on immigration? Or submit to being called a socialist just because I don't think that we ought to tell people where on God's green earth they can be at any given time?

[CNHT]

I donated a pretty fair amount to Ron, and spent some time helping his campaign. I also intend to vote for him in the primary, and in the general (if he gets that far.)

Does that mean I have to agree with his fascist nonsense on immigration? Or submit to being called a socialist just because I don't think that we ought to tell people where on God's green earth they can be at any given time?

I find that last comment interesting when people get booted off this forum, sometimes for good reason, when it's merely virtual 'space' that someone doesn't want them to be!

Thanks for voting. Otherwise, what's the point of supporting Ron?

And the fact is, while we all don't want socialism, we just happen to differ in opinion on whether no borders will create it even faster.
Since it is something that would happen in the future, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am saying most feel it would speed up the process by which there would be an excuse to have worse world-government, and I think they are entitled to their opinion. Ron happens to be one of them. I don't think it's fair either to call us fascist just because we want to have a country.

But some cannot accept that.