Dealing with the police.

[Bald Eagle]

I made a few observations about the police at PF'07, based upon my tolerable employment at a cop shop, and a few people independently asked me to record and expand upon my comments.

Although everyone has their own way of dealing with encounters with the police, my own instincts are to minimize the instances where I am acting from a position of weakness, and maximize the instances where I deal with them in a prepared manner, from a position of strength, and at times and places of my own choosing.

Buy Boston T. Party's "You and the Police."  I will try to avoid retyping much of what he has to say here.

While sometimes bordering on impossible, try to be calm, logical and reasonable when dealing with mr LEO.  What works most effectively for me is to assume the role of someone who is bored my listening to them ramble on about legal BS that I don't think concerns me.  If I adopt a bored mentality, I'm less likely to get drawn into an argument, which they are likely to be trying to provoke you into, and I can remain calm and logical. 

Don't believe a word that they say.  They lie.  They like to lie.  They get paid to lie so that they can harass you, fine you, cite you, ticket you, regulate you, detain you, arrest you, and control you.  Maybe they're not all that way, but the majority are, and even the good ones are apt to unconsciously adopt some of the "us vs them" mentality since they are surrounded by the rest on a daily basis.

Strike a balance in your interaction with them.  Although your main goal should be to get away from them as quickly as possible, if they insist on detaining and questioning you, turn every single question into as complicated and as long a process as you can.  NEVER volunteer ANY information, and act like you might as well be from Alpha Centauri because you don't understand anything that they're talking about. 

NO, you're not aware of anything - you don't know if your paperwork is in order, you don't know what the speed limit is, you don't know how fast you were going, etc.
NO you don't know what the laws or ordinances or regulations are that they are suggesting exist - and could they please show you a written copy of the "law" that you are alleged to have broke.
Cops will often invent laws out of thin air, improperly apply laws that really exist, or have no idea what the hell they're talking about at all.  I like to shove a written copy of any laws that I'm likely to get harassed about in their face and ask, "oh, do you mean THIS law?"  They turn white, freeze, stutter, become unsure about their Godlike stature and infallability, etc.  You must be a lawyer or someone well connected.  Always ask if you are free to go.

If a policeman asks you to exit your vehicle, lock the door behind you.  The only "legitimate" reason a cop has to search your car is if you are in it or have access to the interior where a weapon or other threat to their safety is, otherwise they need to articulate probable cause that you've committed a crime - which you should ask to see a written copy of the law they allege you are breaking.

Never physically get in their way or touch them in any manner, but NEVER agree with anything that they want to do or consent to allow them to do anything without LOUD verbal protest.  If there is a camera in the patrol car, it is probably recording audio from a mike on the officer.  You want your objections to be unmistakable if you are going to deal with the situation in court.

Your objective is to make mr donut man WORK, and they usually don't like to work too hard.  You want them to make as many mistakes and abuses of authority as you possibly can.  You want to force them to violate as many of your rights as possible by force rather than consent. 

Cops usually know what they are lookin FOR, they rarely know what they are looking AT.  For instance, they are likely to be looking for evidence of "crimes"  but may not know what that evidence actually looks like.  A vast majority of cops I personally deal with and observe on a day to day basis are stupid.  I mean that in the most literal way possible.  I just thought of suggesting that you google GoodSearch "stupid cop," and now I'm really frightened about what such a search might turn up.  They can't read well, or comprehend what they read.  They can't do math.  They don't know what things are when they look at them.  Don't ever offer any help whatsoever.  If they ask, "what's this?"  that means that they don't know, and you're stupider than they are to tell them.  Let them search around through that bag of habenero peppers in the back seat, or the botanical samples of Euphobia resinifera, or the clothes you changed out of because they're covered in fiberglass insulation, or wet paint or ink.  Let them confiscate that bag of sugar or salt or advil and waste precious time money and resources finding out that it's NOTHING.  YOU are the monkeywrench.  The more time of theirs that you occupy, the less opportunity that they have to spread tyranny.  Wear them out.  Try to get away as quickly as possible, but give them things that will occupy their time and resources later, and bury them under mountains of paperwork, administrative mazes, disgruntled bosses, angry bosses who are demanding that they bring your case to closure, irate bosses that are wondering why their office is being swamped with emails and phone calls and why the fax is out of paer and ink AGAIN because the Free Staters never STOP.  Screw their relationship with the higher ups and squash their chances for promotion by making them screw up, lose court cases, waste money, publicly embarrass their superiors, undermine their very very precious public credibility, and put them under the media spotlight where they get very bad press.

Most of the cops who come into the Police Supply business that i work at have NO IDEA what they are looking for.  They have no idea what gun they carry, what caliber it's chambered in, what holster will fit it, what badge they have, etc.  They depend on and expect people like me to do all the mental work FOR them, and that is how the engine of tyranny is kept going.  Except that I DON'T help them.  I complicate the issue instead of simplify it.  I sell them cheap sh*t gear that will wear out or break under stress.  I fail to provide unsolicited but helpful information, like maybe you should clean that filthy gun before it jams, or maybe you shouldn't point your gun into your gut while you rack the slide to unload it.  Let them learn the hard way.  I'm a sales clerk, not a police academy instructor.  If they accept the first thing that I shove into their hands, then so be it.  The more I have to make them drive back and forth to get it right the better.  If I have no choice but to sell them quality gear, I push the most expensive option possible and fail to mention any other less expensive alternatives.

There's a New England joke about some visitors asking "can I get to Springfield down this road?"  The New Englander says, "Yep." and the visitors drive off.  A few moments later, he adds, "but that's the long way, and you could go the other way and save yourself an hour's drive."  I love that joke.  I play it on hired mercenaries every day.

Increasingly, LEO's are prior military.  They have no real world experience dealing with free citizens in a community.  The LEO training academies are very military in their training and tactics.  You are a suspect, a danger to them, ready to kill them the first second they look away, surely guilty of SOMETHING, if only they could figure out what it is, after all it us against them.  Lots of them are just itching to get out there and play with their paramilitary toys, chase people, beat on people, kill people, confiscate their property, destroy their property, and simply be the unquestionable top dog that is in control of the situation at all times no matter how unreasonable or violent they are.  They understand nothing else, they are trained to understand nothing else, and some of them are incapable of understanding nothing else.  They are ALWAYS right, the govt and the law is always right, you have no business arguing or opposing them, and they are fully justified in beating the living snot out of you until you submit and "public order" is restored.  "You don't have to respect the man, but you HAVE TO respect the BADGE."  When you're Tased, they consider it good because, "no one got hurt."  This is the way they think.

The flipside is that they are trained and conditioned to follow orders, and they are bound by official rules of conduct.  This is why you need to make them run through as much of that maze as possible.  The more rules that they have to follow, the faster they have to meet deadlines, and the more tired and overworked they are, the more likely they will make mistakes in favor of the citizens and the more likely they will break one rule too many or too big of a rule and get fired.  Which means that they now might harbor ill feelings toward the Dept that fired them.  And that Department will look bad, they will have to find and train someone else, they will have to sort through and figure out all the paperwork on the guy's desk, some of it might be lost, never filed, improperly filed, due process will not be adhered to, he will not be able to appear in court for any tickets that the guy gave out, etc.  Why not use the system against itself?  Officers are AFRAID to do something wrong - because they may get in trouble from their superiors.

I found out that when most people get arrested, they are only "detained" in handcuffs until they are brought to the police station where there is some sort of warrant or other paperwork issued for their arrest.  Cops may not be willing to arrest you if you put them on very shaky legal ground. 

[Bald Eagle]

Cops may be required to pay for some of their own gear.  They may only be issued gear and badges when they first get the job, and then anything that they have to replace is out of their pocket.  Every time they get in or out of a car, they stretch and strain sewn seams on belt loops.  Holsters for flashlights, cuffs, pepper spray, etc are usually about $15 apiece.  Flashlights typically go for $75-100.  Most are REALLY bright and operate on lithium batteries.  Don't forget to have that mirror carefully positioned in the passenger's seat.  They burn out batteries A LOT.   They seem to burn out faster when used for longer continuous amounts of time than when used for shorter periods on more numerous occasions.  123A cells are not cheap.  Neither are the xenon bulbs that burn out when dropped, bumped, or submitted to thermal shock when turned on in the cold. 

Cops buy oodles of "shirt stays" and "collar stays" to keep their shirts tucked in and their collars straight since they are required to maintain a neat and professional appearance.  Jelly donuts, ink, bleach, and any corrosive chemicals that eat through cloth will cost them money.  It would be a shame if they constantly came in contact with grease monkeys or other professionals that transferred sulfate salts to their clothes.  Arresting a bench jeweler wearing a t-shirt soaked in "jeweler's pickling salts" could cost them a uniform.

Cops lose things in struggles all the time.  The more they take things on and off their belts, the more likely it is that they will misplace it, or put it down somewhere and drive away without it.  Their shiny patent leather gear is expensive, uncommon, and wears out quickly.  Basketweave is a pain to order and takes ages to arrive.

Cop cars are filled with tons of expensive electronic gear and other stuff.  Chloride ion is the universal corrodant.  It would be detrimental over the long term to be shoved into the back of a cop car carrying anything that might release volatile and corrosive chloride over time.

Cops spend tons of money replacing worn out jackboots.  Soles are only oil-resistant if they are specifically manufactured that way.  Lots of things that eat through cloth also eat through leather. 

Cops like to sit in hidden spots and set up speed traps.  Spots like this are likely to accumulate materials like nails, broken glass, rusty sheet metal, thin plywood over deep holes, sharp pieces of hollow metal tubing, puddles of battery acid or paint, shingles with upward pointing roofing nails, etc.

Sodium silicate and acidic solutions of fluoride salts really frost glass quite effectively and irreversibly.  Smeared or corroding paint makes a car look slovenly and unprofessional.  That robotic bird that just shit on the speed-trap car might be filled with something neat like paint stripper, oxalic acid, etc.  I'll bet a big blob of tar hung from a branch at night might melt and drip as the sun melted it.  Gotta get that cleaned up.

The more that cops have to deal with in their personal life, the less time they have to show up to court, show up to testify for more BS laws that the police chief wants, the more stress they have at work and the more likely they are to snap back at partners, coworkers, or bosses.  The more crap they have to keep track of in their own lives, the less likely they will be able to remember details of your case, or have the energy to spend on hunting you for sport.  File civil suits against them, write them letters directing them to contact your attorney.  Invite them by mail to voluntarily fill out paperwork for all kinds of things like the IRS does to millions of citizens.  Write informative letters detailing their exploits to the media.  Complicate and confuse their lives.

[AntonLee]

a certain someone I know likes to put certain kinds of cinder blocks in front of certain well known and often used speedtrap 'rest areas". . . . someone did get their ass out of a cruiser to move it, but someone put them back.

no it wasn't me but it was a good idea.

[Bald Eagle]

Cops carry all sorts of crap with them on or off duty.

While some of us carry many of the same things for the same reasons, there are things you can look for that may hint that someone is a cop or informant or agent provacateur.  COINTELPRO used these people to divide and conquer social activist groups in the past and I have no reason to believe that they've gone away or changed tactics. 

Guns, knives clipped into pockets, and wallets that have odd badge-shaped impressions in them.  Badge wallets have suede leaflets in them separating the badge from the rest of the contents.  Look for that edge of (usually blue) seude.  Short haircut.  Cop knowledge - get them talking about the police, the law, procedures, etc.  Attitude - they think they are right and better than the rest of us.  There are things that personally drive them nuts, so get THEM to talk to you about certain topics.  Authoritarians usually can't put on a very libertarian act for long without slipping somewhere.  Start talking in cop code - a baton, knightstick, tonfa is referred to as a PR24.  Learn "10-codes." Learn some administrative lingo that they deal with day in and day out and casually slip it into the conversation.  Look for "blue line" stickers, buttons, pins, wrist bands, etc.  Some idiots carry LEO "challenge coins"  Look at their keys - do they have on for handcuffs or did they forget to take it off the keychain?  Maybe their belt has wear spots on the finish from holsters, cuffs, baton carriers, etc.  Lots of citizens are taught to stand sideways and shoot (Weaver stance) in order to minimize themselves as targets.  Cops are taught to present the front of their ballistic vests (Isosceles stance) and minimize presentation of the seam along the side.  Cops seem to love wearing "5.11 tactical gear", Magnum or UnderArmour shirts, and boots made by companies such as Bates, Magnum, Thorogood, 5.11, and SWAT Original.  5.11 makes special jackets with pockets and hidden channels for wearing a wire.  I own one if you want to see what it looks like up close.  Look for cargo pants, EMT pants, pants with special little pockets, velcro strips, pocket dividers, epaulets, or little pockets in the sleeves or slits in the breast pocket for pens.  Look for cop gear catalogs, cop magazines and newspapers, etc.  Look for things used to maintain uniforms cop gear or or patrol cars like shoe shine, "edge dressing", shirt stays, collar stays, hat presses, seat-organizers, aluminum notepad holders, tactical gear cleaner, etc.  "Hey, why don't we (you) do [something illegal]."  Always a great reason to suspect someone is a fed or agent provacateur.  If you're going to do something, just shut up and do it, and then shut up.  And then keep shutting up.  Feds like to lead a little conspiracy and then screw all the other consiprators.  Somehow that's not entrapment.

Often times these guys have NO IDEA how obvious the fact that they are a cop is.  Other times, they are disheveled illiterate idiots with more tattoos than some gang members - or they ARE recruited "former" gang members, and you can't tell the difference between them and anyone else.  Ever wonder why they don't like photographers at gun shows?  Because there are 9 zillion undercover cops and feds in the crowd.

Like I said, many of these things can apply to "gear heads," gun guys, or especially ME, but I figured that I'd just put it out there as an FYI.  Don't be paranoid, but don't be stupid.  If there's something that your gut says isn't quite right - especially just for that first instant - write it down, don't forget it, and get your antennae up and out.  The price of Liberty is indeed eternal vigilance.  Know thine enemy.

[AntonLee]

a cop came up to me on the beach, plain clothed, but he still had the look, the pressed baseball cap, the fresh facial hair, the build and the vest underneath.  He asked me flat out if I could find some weed for him.  I asked him if he was a cop, and he said "oh god no son, just looking for some herbals" 

So I took a chance. . . I started saying louder and louder if he was a cop and all of a sudden he was "do you know that outing an undercover police officer is a crime?"   

So I walked down the strip telling everyone and pointing at him.  I figured at the very least he switched over to busting people pissing on the beach after everything is closed.   But the question is, is this truly a crime?  I can't in a free world like the USA go down the street and inform others that there is in fact a police officer in the area?  Or is it one of those laws that has come of age because police found it "difficult" to be undercover?  Perhaps they shouldn't be so blatant, or at the very least arrest themselves for outing an undercover cop.

plus, I was listening to my iPod, not high nor smoking-- he didn't even ask me what was in my cup (water).   

[Quantrill]

Some very good posts, Bald Eagle.

You & the police takes a very common-sense approach to dealing with police.  I've refused consent to search my vehicle many times, and apparently many people just do whatever the cops want.  The officers often have seemed surprised that someone would assert their rights without acting like a jerk (though I've also been a jerk to the cops before too     )

a certain someone I know likes to put certain kinds of cinder blocks in front of certain well known and often used speedtrap 'rest areas". . . . someone did get their ass out of a cruiser to move it, but someone put them back.

That's funny.  Onetime I saw a bunch of nails on one of those "authorized personnel only" areas that only cops can use to turn around.  I about died laughing!   I'm sure the nails would serve their purpose, but I was thinking that maybe if someone welded and bent 2 nails together and cut the heads off you would have a 4-sided object that would definitely flatten tires.

Gotta love civil dis like that!

[Bald Eagle]

Signal to noise ratio.

It's a lot easier to notice a faint 1-lumen in the zero-lumen darkness, it's a lot harder to notice the difference between a 199 and a 200-lumen light.

Cops and feds look for things they imagine in their authoritarian statist fantasies are "CRIMES."

They increasingly rely on technology brought to them by people paid with stolen tax dollars to develop better, more efficient gadgets to detect evidence of these purported crimes.

Imagine what would happen if every dollar that passed through your hands became tainted with "explosives residue" from gunpowder, Nu-Skin wound protectant, fertilizer, amyl nitrate inhalants, nitroglycerine heart meds, alkyl nitrites in things like air fresheners.  http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs07/708/

Or if oregano were distributed far and wide onto surfaces that became quite hot.  I've also noticed that starch from pasta boil-over can have a peculiar characteristic herbal aroma.  Or if real ditch-weed were ground up, released illegally into the air via helium balloons, and popped mid-air where lots of drug dogs hang out.  Like at the drug dog bar, or the drug dog mall.  Thiols and mercaptans are sulfur compounds used to add odor to things like natural gas.  The only problem is that although the threshold concentration for olfactory detection of these chemicals is very low, they have the property of neutralizing your sense of smell over a period of time if continually exposed.  Probably also a bad thing for drug dogs.

Drug dogs are trained to look for drugs, but it's done by providing toys and treats as rewards.  I like to drive around on Sundfays with dog snacks and treats in my car, and give my freedom-loving friends pet toys as gifts.  It's also fun to spray things like coon urine or other fun hunting products out the window while driving as it gives the dogs' sensitive noses a special treat that will drive them WILD!  Cops love when protesters get arrested and shoved in the back of a cop car carrying little ziplock bags of coon urine!  I hate it whn those things open accidentally.

Lots of drug tests and other chemical tests give false positives for other common over the counter drugs like Benadryl or things like poppy seed rolls, bagels, or salad dressing.  Most drug tests go through a preliminary "screen" and then if there is a potentially positive result, there is more advanced and expensive testing.  Every urine sample should light up the screen like a christmas tree and then be proven later and more expensively to the system to be a false positive.  It would be a shame if a testing lab got whalloped with a chemical leak or contamination.  All those "green leafy" substances, or white powdery substances might be rife with things that clog up the works during sample prep or damage million-dollar tandem liquid-chromatography mass-spectrographs.  Large quantities of fluoride (some insect and rat poisons, fluoride supplements) is always fun to put into expensive equipment or glass vessels.  Gelling agents drive lab technicians crazy.  Metamucil, pectin, starches, microcrystalline or modified cellulose, gelatin, aluminum salts (Dr. Scholl's aisle), etc. make dissolving and filtering a sample FUN!  Ever try getting that stuff to go into or out of a sample syringe?  I'll betcha some sodium silicate (deck waterproofing, and lots of other applications) would make an expensive ground-glass syringe lock up tighter than Monica Lewinski's lips.

Cops look for certain smells and precursor chemicals when looking for The Dreaded Meth Lab!   Dun-dun-dah!    .  Amines are used in the manufacture of meth, and are just chemically modified ammonia.  Methylamine in particular is not only used to make meth, but is released by bacteria from rotting fish.  Toss a dead mackeral or a bucket of chum into or near ever shack in the woods and let them sort it all out on a wild goose chase.

Anthranilic acid is was used to make Methaqualone (Quaalude^TM) when people still knew what that was.  Any grape-flavored food is chock full of methyl anthranilate. 

Mass transit centers have big utility boxes that suck in and filter air, and then testing is done for anthrax spores, radioactive materials, nerve agents, etc.  Cultivating mushrooms with millions of spores is a fun and profitable hobby that I think lots of people in NH woul enjoy.  And we like to go camping and use Coleman lantern with those mantles that contain thorium oxide.  And we like to enjoy healthy diets with potassium supplements and salt-substitutes.  Oddly enough a large percentage of all-natural potassium is naturally radioactive.  None of that non-radioactive synthetic stuff for us back-to-nature types!

An d of course, Cannabis sativa grows wild EVERYWHERE and does not discriminate between hydroponic labs, gardens, or the lawns on police stations, courts, or officers' homes.

The point is, the more things that are EVERYWHERE, the harder it is to show that it is somewhere in particular, or that ONLY you exhibit traces of it.  Like cocaine on FRN's.

Speaking of FRN's, that little pen that "detects counterfeits" is just a felt-tipped pen with iodine solution instead of ink.  FRN's use specially purified paper with all of the starch removed, so the iodine remains yellowish, whereas regular paper has its natural starch that reacts with the iodine and turns it that dark purple color.  Now if all of your FRN's got sprayed with laundry starch, a lot more people would have a lot less faith in FRN's.  You could even stamp them all with something like "The Liberty Dollar isn't FAKE!"

[Bald Eagle]

I'm sure the nails would serve their purpose, but I was thinking that maybe if someone welded and bent 2 nails together and cut the heads off you would have a 4-sided object that would definitely flatten tires.

Cops bring objects and devices back to the station and they eventually get analyzed and recorded into a database.  Do some research into protests like WTO and you'll see what I'm talking about.  I think there might me some mention of this by the cops in some of the Alex Jones Police State videos.

Anyone has a valid reason for buying and transporting nails.  A "reasonable man" could not construe a bag of nails as evidence of criminal intent.  Caltrops are unusual, require undue labor, leave forensic evidence, and are hard to explain.

Plausible deniability.

[Caleb]

At the risk of defending small time thuggery ...

I don't think we necessarily need to adopt the same "us vs them" attitude with the cops here in NH. As far as cops go, most of the small town cops here seem pretty easygoing. There are far too many cops here in Keene, but even though I've been pulled over way too many times, they've never been rude to me, or even given me a ticket. Some of them have been downright helpful.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I guess I'm just saying that you have to adapt your actions to your circumstances. If the cops in your little town seem pretty easygoing, then why not try to win them over to your cause. You may just get them to turn their heads to what you do, so long as you're not hurting anyone. If you're in LA ... sure, avoid them like the plague. But maybe Marlborough, NH requires a little different strategy.

[NC2NH]

Great thread, Bald Eagle. Thanks for being a monkeywrench and for sharing your experiences, etc.

But maybe Marlborough, NH requires a little different strategy.

Yeah, if a state trooper pulls you over there you might get shot dead.

[KBCraig]

I was thinking that maybe if someone welded and bent 2 nails together and cut the heads off you would have a 4-sided object that would definitely flatten tires.

The Romans thought so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop

[Caleb]

Great thread, Bald Eagle. Thanks for being a monkeywrench and for sharing your experiences, etc.

But maybe Marlborough, NH requires a little different strategy.

Yeah, if a state trooper pulls you over there you might get shot dead.

touche. 

Although, once again, that was the state troopers, not the local marlborough boys.

[error]

Those easygoing, downright helpful police in Keene did arrest Russell for doing nothing wrong...

[Caleb]

Sure ... but I bet they turn their heads when he drives by from now on ...

[NC2NH]

touche. 

Although, once again, that was the state troopers, not the local marlborough boys.

You're right. I just couldn't resist commenting since you mentioned Marlborough.

You have more experience driving around that area than anyone I know, and I'm glad your experiences with the local cops have been relatively good.