Dealing with the police.

[Bald Eagle]

Sure Caleb, I've (amazingly) got a number of people here in VA who are cops or ex cops that I get along very well with, some I've gotten interested in the FSP, and some are actually defenders of liberty - as far as cops are allowed to be...

It's the dedicated evil mobs of rogue thugs who live every second of their petty useless lives to screw everyone else over that I dedicated these ideas for created a rocky road for tyranny to travel on.  If there are good guys who want to be Peace Officers more than they want to be LEO's or mercenaries or informants or thugs with a badge, then I'm very interested in organizing community events such as "Get to know your community servants."  That way we know who they are, they know who we are, and it's harder to treat someone as sub-human when you know them personally. 

Christian teachings and ethics aside, some people are vicious reprehensible disgusting pieces of feces whose evil should be resisted every step of the way. 

Furthermore, I believe that much of the true evil in the system - the evil GENIUS of Satan if you will, is based upon what Ayn Rand's concept of true evil is.  Imagine a huge boulder or avalanche or volcanic lava flow coming off the top of a mountain to crush a town below.  That is the epitome of evil.  It will destroy good - the life God gave us and everything in that life, and everything we used that life to work for, and nothing can stop it.  We can argue and reason and use irrefutable logic, and beg and plead for mercy, and show we've led good, principled, pious lives, and it will not sway, contact, communicate with, or touch the oncoming destructive force.  Criminals are subject to persuasion.  Rogue legislators and agents of the state can be persuaded through peaceful means.  But The Engine of the State has a crushing, unthinking momentum of it's own that even few of its own cogs have the power to influence.  People's lives and futures are crushed and destroyed in unthinkable manners because of a set of rules.  Those rules are implemented by men and machines.  You can love those men as your enemies, Caleb, but I should think that you'd have no real issues with disabling the machines and throwing sand into the gears.

If someone manufactured a Real ID for you, would you not crush it's RFID chip with a hammer and burn it?  If you received the Mark of the Beast in your right hand or your forehead, would you not remove it?  Did not Christ himself drive out the money changers and turn over their tables?  He didn't play nice with them and hold a sign in Aramaic politely asking the usurous profiteers to leave his Father's house, he did what a man of sense ought to do and kicked the scumbags the hell out.

If I have legitimate business in the IRS office, and purposefully save up a green, juicy fart from the depths of my bowels to let loose once inside, am I initiating force or violence against the agents of tyranny?  I'll bet that I'm making it an unpleasant working environment for them though. 

I left chemistry because I hated the environment.  Let's make tyrants and petty thugs hate their working environment and offer them lucrative, pleasant free-market alternatives.  Spare the rod and spoil the child.  Is it any wonder we have a bunch of spoiled above-the-law brats abusing us like slaves on a plantation?  We've got an amazing carrot to offer people - we need to apply the stick to overcome inertia and resistance.  It's irresponsible to not use a method that may reverse the path to bloody revolution.  There are people out there who will not shy away from bloody revolution if pushed to it and offered no other choice.  We're here now, and can work to prevent that.  Our ounce of prevention, however bitter the medicine may be, is worth more than a pound of what the cure will be if tyranny rules.

[Quantrill]

If I have legitimate business in the IRS office, and purposefully save up a green, juicy fart from the depths of my bowels to let loose once inside, am I initiating force or violence against the agents of tyranny?  I'll bet that I'm making it an unpleasant working environment for them though.

[Caleb]

Good points, bald eagle.

Evil should always be resisted. Nonviolently of course.

I just wanted to make the points that I think you have clarified:  We need to take the situation into account and see to what extent we can win over those who might be so inclined.

My experience has been this:  Almost every large city police corp is thoroughly corrupt. Probably anything over 100,000 people in the city and you're going to have a corrupt police corp. In Indianapolis, (where I came from), they like to break in people's houses in the dead of night and shoot them dead. The thought seems to be that anything that would give the owner of the home notice of what is happening endangers the lives of the officers. Of course, when you frighten homeowners, many times very bad things happen, and people have been shot dead for doing the natural thing and trying to defend themselves against what they can only assume is a burglary or worse.

In Greenwood, IN, one moronic officer decided to attempt to pull my wife over in an unmarked (civilian) car by chasing us and flashing his brights at us. At that time, I was still resisting evil by force. We thought some crazy guy was chasing us (in retrospect, he was some crazy guy, he just happened to have a badge), so I directed my wife to pull over in a restaurant parking lot, and I told her to run inside the restaurant, while I would charge the guy and hit him in the face as hard as I could. I got out of the car and bolted toward him. He also got out and pulled a gun on me and said, "Freeze! Police!"  I put my hands up and told him, "You better be glad you're a cop. You were about two seconds away from getting a fist to your jaw."  He told me, "You were about one second away from getting shot."  When we reported him to the police chief, he told me, "Huh? That's certainly out of character for him. He passed his most recent psychological profile with flying colors." As best as I can tell, nothing was ever done to discipline him for chasing us through the streets in a civilian car.

In smaller towns, it's a crapshoot. They have smaller departments, so each department takes on a life of its own. In Owensboro, KY, the police like to pull over pretty young girls, and then let them out of the tickets if they will perform sexual favors. But I don't think that's happening here.

So I don't have a whole lot of respect for LEO's in general.

But I tend to doubt that we will ever have pure anarchy in my lifetime. About the best that we can hope for is officers simply looking the other way because they like us, and don't want to hurt us. The "us vs them" attitude is not going to help that. If they take it with us ... sure, clog them up and waste their time so they can't hurt other people. But if they don't take that attitude, you're probably better off trying to win them over.

[Bald Eagle]

That's right kids, my Nom de Guerre is Bald Eagle and I'm here to make fighting for Liberty FUN!

Not to be confused with the song by The Mentors, we can start The 4 F Club.

Farters Fighting For Freedom.

[AntonLee]

At the risk of defending small time thuggery ...

I don't think we necessarily need to adopt the same "us vs them" attitude with the cops here in NH. As far as cops go, most of the small town cops here seem pretty easygoing. There are far too many cops here in Keene, but even though I've been pulled over way too many times, they've never been rude to me, or even given me a ticket. Some of them have been downright helpful.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I guess I'm just saying that you have to adapt your actions to your circumstances. If the cops in your little town seem pretty easygoing, then why not try to win them over to your cause. You may just get them to turn their heads to what you do, so long as you're not hurting anyone. If you're in LA ... sure, avoid them like the plague. But maybe Marlborough, NH requires a little different strategy.

I should have prefaced my point by saying I lived in the commonwealth. . . whoops, a certain commonwealth.  And by I, I mean someone. haha

[Bald Eagle]

That's why I like to talk with you, Caleb - I think we agree on a lot of things, and the things that we don't we don't get into a pissing match over.

I'll be happy to watch you peacfully protest from 400 yards away, get your skull shattered by someone in an army of overzealous nazis looking to make a name for themselves, and then blow his waste of grey matter from between his ears that are unable to hear and out from in back of his eyes that are unable to see.

150 grains of gilding-metal jacketed lead, travelling at over 2800 feet per second (over 1900 MPH) and spinning at over 200,000 RPM is sure to momentarily get the thug's attention with over 85,000 foot-pounds of energy and teach him a lesson about Liberty that will last him the rest of his life.  Before anyone even hears the sound of the shot.

When you come out of your coma, we can continue to debate Christian love vs Tough love.  You can introduce them to Christ your way, and I can back you up with mine. 

Like I've said before, I'm more than willing to play the nonviolent noncooperation game and be one of many water droplets in the Second Wave.  But the fascist shark that draws first blood on My People will face the wrath of the Third Wave - armed with "rods of iron".


19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should
smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he
treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING
OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud
voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come
and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 19:18
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the
flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on
them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and
great.
19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their
armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the
horse, and against his army.
19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that
wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had
received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.
These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon
the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls
were filled with their flesh.

[error]

I'll be happy to watch you peacfully protest from 400 yards away, get your skull shattered by someone in an army of overzealous nazis looking to make a name for themselves, and then blow his waste of grey matter from between his ears that are unable to hear and out from in back of his eyes that are unable to see.

150 grains of gilding-metal jacketed lead, travelling at over 2800 feet per second (over 1900 MPH) and spinning at over 200,000 RPM is sure to momentarily get the thug's attention with over 85,000 foot-pounds of energy and teach him a lesson about Liberty that will last him the rest of his life.  Before anyone even hears the sound of the shot.

I think you'll find yet another happy home over at our new forum as well.

[Caleb]

Well, I'm not so naive as to believe that pacifism will always be the safest route.   Actually, Jesus said that true Christians would be persecuted until he returned. I'm just thankful that they aren't still boiling us in oil. Or at least, there is a moratorium on the oil-boilings.   (who knows when they'll take it up again.)

Self-defense is the natural thing, and truth be told, is probably the best way to stay alive.

I've got worked up before on this issue, but I try to maintain the viewpoint that if I see a person attacking another person, and that person defending himself ... why on earth would I condemn the smaller act of violence over the larger one? The person attacking is the main problem.

And I like talking with you, because you've got very creative ideas; and while I know that you will defend yourself, you don't seem to have  a violent heart, because almost all of your ideas are nonviolent.   So keep them coming!  

[Bald Eagle]

The person attacking is the main problem.

And I like talking with you, because you've got very creative ideas; and while I know that you will defend yourself, you don't seem to have  a violent heart, because almost all of your ideas are nonviolent.  So keep them coming! 

Right-O.  We all just want to be left alone so that we can be free to visit each other and party while making tons of money pushing the envelope with new ideas, technologies, and efficient services.

I just like to remind myself and others that it's not the fall of our Nation that's going to kill us, it's the sudden stop at the end.   There's got to be an end somewhere, some line that isn't in the sand - it's in bedrock.  Government shall not do this, otherwise all bets are off, all contracts explicit, implicit, or implied are null and void, and it's shit-kicking time.

I'd be happy with simply throwing all of the fascist thugs and the cheerleaders of evil into a big cage and watching them fight amongst themselves as they tried to blame each other.  Any score on the Nolan Chart that's North of Authoritarian gets you out, and into a rehabilitation program.   

I just think it's silly that people make such a big friggin stink about "violence."  Parents spank their kids, kids beat the snot out of each other over stupid stuff and then get over it, drunk guys get into bar brawls and once it's out of their systems they're back at the bar buying beers for each other.  Like it or not, we're animals, and we kick and scratch and peck and butt heads and lock horns.  Sometimes there are other "more civil" ways, but smacking someone on the head kind of gets their attention in a special way and sometimes literally knocks some sense into them.

"Most civilization is based on cowardice. It's so easy to civilize by teaching cowardice. You water down the standards which would lead to bravery. You restrain the will. You regulate the appetites. You fence in the horizons. You make a law for every movement. You deny the existence of chaos. You teach even the children to breathe slowly. You tame. " - Frank Herbert, Dune

"With all the artillery, ships and manpower in the military, our commanders often forget that ideas can be the greatest weapon of all." - a Cogitor

I plan on being one dangerous MF'ing weapon.   

You are definitely welcome to come over and hang out any time you want.  Even if you do piss all over MaineShark's karma.     The clash between our approaches is sure to be enlightening.

"To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen. Do not depend only on theory if your life is at stake."

[KBCraig]

You are definitely welcome to come over and hang out any time you want.  Even if you do piss all over MaineShark's karma.   

Caleb, are you my ping-pong opponent in the battle over Maine Shark's karma?

Kevin

[mvpel]

There's got to be an end somewhere, some line that isn't in the sand - it's in bedrock.  Government shall not do this, otherwise all bets are off, all contracts explicit, implicit, or implied are null and void, and it's shit-kicking time.

Perhaps an attempt, either successful or unsuccessful depending on one's level of cantankerousness, to repeal the Second Amendment.

[error]

There's got to be an end somewhere, some line that isn't in the sand - it's in bedrock.  Government shall not do this, otherwise all bets are off, all contracts explicit, implicit, or implied are null and void, and it's shit-kicking time.

Perhaps an attempt, either successful or unsuccessful depending on one's level of cantankerousness, to repeal the Second Amendment.

They've already done that. Nobody lifted a finger.

[mvpel]

They've already done that. Nobody lifted a finger.

I'm thinking of a more open attempt as some left-wing pundits have proposed, instead of the death by a thousand cuts we've suffered for the past seven decades.

[David]

I agree completely with the right of self defense. 
But I view it like this.  I am one man.  There are about 30 keene law enforcers, maybe several hundred state police, a national guard, and the us military.  in a state of 1.3 million people, only Carl drega, Liko Kenny, and the Browns, and a few others that have actually lived free or died. 
Most submit to arrest because most believe in the long run they will be better off alive than dead, to fight another day.  I believe in the nonviolent route to challenge the gov't for pragmatic reasons.  The gov't mafia is bigger, better armed, ect.  You have a God given right to defend your property and your life.  But with the gov't mafia, there are better ways to do it then throwing rocks at the hornets nest. 
I'm going to use the example of licence plates to illustrate this, because in this method, the strategy works.  http://goingtojail.embassyofheaven.com/  I believe it was Dadaorwell that came up with the concept of 'Ignore me or Arrest me.'  When enforcing the thousands of laws on the books, the individual enforcer has to decide to ignore it or arrest the nonviolent resister.  The last time they arrested Russel.  I believe they will likely harass or arrest him for not having a licence at least once or twice more.  After that, they are more likely to simply ignore him. 
This strategy only works if 1. the inmate is essentially uncooperative, and 2. the inmate has outside support.  (it reminds the police that they are being watched.) 
The goal, is to get the police to not want to enforce their own laws.  It isn't to make them afraid of us, or angry at us.  The easiest way to get someone to stop beating you is to make them not want to beat you.  To threaten violence or to scare them works for a while, but it only triggers anger and retaliation.  Dr. King was very worried about the outbrakes of violence for this reason.  The nonviolent approach has a better longer lasting legacy.  I doubt the police have any real bitterness towards Russel.  The law and order types may grunt that he 'got away with breaking the law', but there should be no real violence.   
I have an nhfree bumper sticker on the back of my car specifically so they know, that I have friends.
It is dangerous to paint all cops with a broad brush especially since we are the minority. 

[Caleb]

You are definitely welcome to come over and hang out any time you want.  Even if you do piss all over MaineShark's karma.   

Caleb, are you my ping-pong opponent in the battle over Maine Shark's karma?

Kevin

no. to my knowledge I've never smited maineshark. I don't know who your opponent is, but the logical suspects would be the non-violent crowd and the 9/11 truthers. I know I fit both categories ... but it wasn't me. I smite people only if they become government apologists. Like the moron who says that Monier is doing a good job.