What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire

[alphaniner]

What part of our socio-economic model don't you like?

As I mentioned, the 'consumerist' part, although there are other aspects.  I'd say this is more sociological than economic, but it largely affects the nature of the economy.

I'm not talking about the defacto socialism we have, but the purported capitalistic free market system which I am sure is the brunt of this video? Did they suggest you get rid of your cars?

In the most simple sense, capitalism just means that the individual should be the one to decide what he produces and consumes.  'The Agenda' notwithstanding, nothing that was suggested in the film is anti-capitalistic by that definition, even getting rid of your car.  Even the guy who mentioned "the failure of capitalism as an economic model" said it was 'the constant need for growth and expansion' that was it's failing.  I'm inclined to agree that our present 'socio-economic model' is in fact dependent on growth and expansion, and that this is not a good thing.  The key here is dependency.  Capitalism naturally fosters and promotes growth and expansion, but I do not believe it is dependent upon it.

[error]

"This excruciating pseudo-documentary about mankind's imminent demise gives itself away from the first frame: a warning reading, "This documentary is long and dense. Don't try to understand and integrate it all the first time through. Just let it work over you. And let yourself feel it." Feel what? Rage and despair, apparently. Director and narrator Timothy S. Bennett, doing his best to sound like David Sedaris on a really bad day, kicks off his panic fest, entirely cobbled together from stock footage, with a 15-minute angst jam (think "Howl," if Ginsberg were a suicidal conservationist) before interviewing his friends, neighbors and son about their shared belief that we are, like, so fucked. The problem, apparently, is not so much pollution and overpopulation as the agricultural-capitalist system, man. What a Way to Go's tone is so infuriatingly hopeless that the viewer instinctively writes off the opinions of the few experts who find their way in. There's little in the way of evidence in the film, and no conclusion about what must be done to change things—just another string of bad metaphors, quotes from The Matrix, and a call for a "vision quest for the collective unconscious." Mmm, no thanks." -BEN WATERHOUSE http://www.wweek.com

Wow. When Willamette Week, the leftmost publication in far-left Portland, Oregon, pans your film...

[alphaniner]

I objected to the fact they did not want you to think while you watched it and they attacked our way of life and called for a 'collective' solution.

That was what raised a red flag for me.

Are you referring to the following:

This documentary is long and dense.
Don't try to understand and integrate it all the first time through.
Just let is wash over you.
And let yourself feel it.

?

I think it is a quite a stretch to conclude this means simply 'don't think.'

[Insurgent]

Exactly, the point is that the film is so long and yet moves so quickly--they even scroll through a long list of related issues they would have liked to cover, but omitted for the sake of time. They encourage, on the first viewing at least, to simply watch and feel it and not belabor any particular point. I have watched it several times since then and always get something new out of it every time.

The website is a wealth of information, too with links to related materials and sites to research more. http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/links-and-resources

[Insurgent]

Maybe YOU see 'consumerism' as unfulfilling and destructive but some of us see it as part of our freedom.

This is the kind of thing that really makes me angry.  I mentioned my feelings about consumerism simply to put into context my assessment of the film.  Frankly, I was admitting that I was somewhat biased towards the message before watching the film.  I NEVER NEVER NEVER suggested anything about taking away your freedom to pursue that lifestyle, or anything else about taking away anyone's freedom in any way.  I don't understand why you continue to assume I am hostile towards freedom just because I think there may be some truth to this kind of thing.  I may be as you say a dupe to some enviro-fascist agenda, and guilty in that respect, but I have never suggested curtailing anyone's freedom.

The film-makers don't advocate for curtailing anyone's freedom, or any other agenda. Nor do they think that everyone should be forced to give up their cars. In fact they specifically point out that they have zero expectation that government has any solution to the many problems we are facing.

This is all speculation and interpretation by those who have not seen the film.

[CNHT]

So once again I ask, what *IS* the point of the movie if not to motivate people to DO something?

[EthanAllen]

but the purported capitalistic free market system

Those who confuse capitalism for free markets are buying into a myth too.

[EthanAllen]

So once again I ask, what *IS* the point of the movie if not to motivate people to DO something?

Maybe it is just a bus?

The essence of the problem is the treating of the commons as unowned and valueless until labor is applied to it and then it is magically transformed into capital.

[Insurgent]

Not every movie has an agenda or a "to do list". In fact the narrator, Tim points out at the end that he hates movies that have happy ending with a list of things to do that are going to solve the issues presented. Again I point out that it's hard to talk to people about a book, film, piece of music or anything else that has to be experienced to understand.

[alphaniner]

So once again I ask, what *IS* the point of the movie if not to motivate people to DO something?

I don't think anyone said that it is not intended to motivate people to do something.  Just that it doesn't seem to be intended to motivate people to sacrifice their free will to some totalitarian agenda.

In the end, though, I am not really concerned with their intentions, but with the content of their message, because I have not seen fit to dismiss it.

I am well aware that it would be disingenuous to resolve indiscriminately the opposition of any set of men (merely because their situations might subject them to suspicion) into interested or ambitious views. Candor will oblige us to admit that even such men may be actuated by upright intentions.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1

[alphaniner]

but the purported capitalistic free market system

Those who confuse capitalism for free markets are buying into a myth too.

Which in particular do you take offense to, capitalism or free markets?  Capitalism can be - and has been - used to describe a lot of things, but I think the concept of free markets is pretty straightforward and beyond reproach.  If you believe in the supremacy of the individual, that is.

So once again I ask, what *IS* the point of the movie if not to motivate people to DO something?

Maybe it is just a bus?

The essence of the problem is the treating of the commons as unowned and valueless until labor is applied to it and then it is magically transformed into capital.

Say what now?

[EthanAllen]

I think the concept of free markets is pretty straightforward and beyond reproach.

Agreed. Think about it, capitalists hate the free market because prices get driven to costs and therefore there are no profits possible. Capitalist use the state to protect their profits.

[shyfrog]

You keep using the wrong word 

[alphaniner]

I think the concept of free markets is pretty straightforward and beyond reproach.

Agreed. Think about it, capitalists hate the free market because prices get driven to costs and therefore there are no profits possible. Capitalist use the state to protect their profits.

I agree that many so-called capitalists shun the free market because it drives prices down.  However I disagree about it driving prices all the way down to cost, or making profit impossible.  I think it makes massive profits - like those legitimately associated with the introduction of a new product or service, or those illegitimately garnered through state protection - much harder to sustain.

[CNHT]

Not every movie has an agenda or a "to do list". In fact the narrator, Tim points out at the end that he hates movies that have happy ending with a list of things to do that are going to solve the issues presented. Again I point out that it's hard to talk to people about a book, film, piece of music or anything else that has to be experienced to understand.

So, what is your conclusion? Did you watch it for entertainment alone? For information? What will you do with that information?