What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire

[alphaniner]

You keep using the wrong word 

Anyone who uses the word "capitalism" is using the wrong word; there is no consensus on what the word means. Using it hinders communication.

Agreed.  In many ways, I think using the word capitalism is just as dangerous using the word democracy to describe our system of government (rather, that system of government established by the constitution).

[Insurgent]

So once again I ask, what *IS* the point of the movie if not to motivate people to DO something?

Does someone have to actually spell it out? So I make myself clear--View the film, digest it, and come back with your observations. 

[CNHT]

So once again I ask, what *IS* the point of the movie if not to motivate people to DO something?

Does someone have to actually spell it out? So I make myself clear--View the film, digest it, and come back with your observations. 

Um well, I was just asking your opinion! I don't have to have it spelled out, just wanted to know what YOU thought the purpose was. If you don't want to tell me that's fine. If it has no purpose then there is no reason to see it.

[Insurgent]

Here's my opinion: from having taken the effort to read reviews of the film before viewing, following the film-makers blogs, attending a viewing with the film-makers, taking part in a circle discussion with the film-makers and audience, buying a DVD and scrutinizing it several times since, I realize that the makers of the film have invested their life savings in to a film to tell a compelling story.

It tells of how they have awakened to the reality which honestly portrays where we are, how we got here and some options of where to go from here.

The details of the story are in the film; some of them have been discussed in this thread. It's impossible, though to understand the film without actually viewing it.

[EthanAllen]

It's impossible, though to understand the film without actually viewing it.

You are arguing with a person who doesn't know that the fundamental tenet of libertarianism is the absolute right to self-ownership.

[CNHT]

It's impossible, though to understand the film without actually viewing it.

You are arguing with a person who doesn't know that the fundamental tenet of libertarianism is the absolute right to self-ownership.

First of all, we are not 'arguing'. I'm asking him his opinion about something.
Second, your comment has nothing to do with the subject AT ALL, and should be considered spam.
Third, no one cares, least of all me, whether you think I or anyone is a 'libertarian' or not. Libertarianism is not the subject of this thread nor the end all be all of everyone's existence. And you socialists who have hijacked the term can have it, no one else wants it now, it's tainted.
Fourth,

[jaqeboy]

Btw, Insurgent, any chance of setting up a local showing of the vid? I know the libertarians that trekked over to Keene all expressed interest in seeing this again. Some important issues for libertarians to address in WaWtG:LatEoE. Also, do you know if they'll be back around in New England? Guess I better go read their blog.

I'm enthusiastic to set up a local showing of this provocative film. Problem being, a lack of venue. I can pack a couple people in to my little apartment, but we should really get something bigger. Anyone know of perfect venue with A/V facilities to seat 40 or so people for little or no cost? 

Is there a Chinese buffet in Concord like that one in Manchester near the mall. They had that party room off to the side where we had our semi-private lunch with Michael Berger and they were very accomodating and welcoming. And they receive the benefit of a couple of dozen people eating from their buffet. Just a thought. (Would have to find one with a big TV - it would be easy enough to bring a little DVD player along)

[EthanAllen]

Btw, Insurgent, any chance of setting up a local showing of the vid? I know the libertarians that trekked over to Keene all expressed interest in seeing this again. Some important issues for libertarians to address in WaWtG:LatEoE. Also, do you know if they'll be back around in New England? Guess I better go read their blog.

I'm enthusiastic to set up a local showing of this provocative film. Problem being, a lack of venue. I can pack a couple people in to my little apartment, but we should really get something bigger. Anyone know of perfect venue with A/V facilities to seat 40 or so people for little or no cost? 

Is there a Chinese buffet in Concord like that one in Manchester near the mall. They had that party room off to the side where we had our semi-private lunch with Michael Berger and they were very accomodating and welcoming. And they receive the benefit of a couple of dozen people eating from their buffet. Just a thought. (Would have to find one with a big TV - it would be easy enough to bring a little DVD player along)

Red River Theatre just opened up in Concord and they have a "media room" with a projector and screen and can accomodate 48 people or so and the chairs can be moved.
Great sound system too!

http://www.redrivertheatres.org/about_facility.php

excerpt:
The Jaclyn Simchik Memorial Cinema is an intimate multi-purpose room, capable of seating 48, equipped with high-end DVD equipment and video-conferencing capabilities.

http://www.redrivertheatres.org/rent.php

rental phone number

http://www.redrivertheatres.org/rent.php

[EthanAllen]

you socialists who have hijacked the term can have it, no one else wants it now, it's tainted.

Define "socialist" please...

[Insurgent]

Thanks for the theatre referral, EthanAllen--I'll check that out! 

[EthanAllen]

Thanks for the theatre referral, EthanAllen--I'll check that out! 

Also,

Annichiarico Theater       
1 Thompson Street
Concord, NH

[jaqeboy]

Btw, ... a local showing of the vid?...

I'm enthusiastic to set up a local showing of this provocative film. Problem being, a lack of venue. I can pack a couple people in to my little apartment, but we should really get something bigger. Anyone know of perfect venue with A/V facilities to seat 40 or so people for little or no cost? 

...a Chinese buffet in Concord...?

Red River Theatre just opened up in Concord...
Great sound system too!

http://www.redrivertheatres.org/about_facility.php

excerpt:
The Jaclyn Simchik Memorial Cinema is an intimate multi-purpose room, capable of seating 48, equipped with high-end DVD equipment and video-conferencing capabilities.
http://www.redrivertheatres.org/rent.php

rental phone number
http://www.redrivertheatres.org/rent.php

This sounds perfect! ...and expensive? Insurgent, can you check it out? (should be able to have snacks and coffee and able to sell copies of the DVD and books afterwards to be ideal) I'm outa state right now, but I'd definitely attend and help promote a viewing and discussion session. We may have to ask for "suggested donations" to make sure we cover the nightly room rate. If this place works out, though, it could be good for other viewings, too! I think we could draw in a lot of locals, as well as the Porcs/libs and of course the parade of pinko commie idiots

[jaqeboy]

... I saw it as an attack on 'consumerism' - defined as "the equating of personal happiness with the purchasing of material possessions and consumption" - which is a philosophy I see as unfulfilling and ultimately destructive.  Consumerism is certainly one 'application' of capitalism, but it is not the only possible application.

alphaniner: +1 for giving a good definition of consumerism and recognizing it as an ill.

It's true that by exercizing a personal ethos of putting consuming material goods first, as a way to achieve happiness, one would end up with a vacuous life, ie, "money can't buy happiness."

On the larger scale, if the organs of power in a society promoted and encouraged consumption as a value (as opposed to production and saving) and if the people were affected by that message and acted on those incentives, the true, broad-scale, beneficiaries would therefore be those that produced and sold those material goods, not the consumer.

And, if, at the same time, those powerful interests encouraged those same people to mortgage their futures to achieve these temporary shopping highs, and they did it using a monetary system that they control (and created the very money out of thin air, through an elaborate scheme of centralized banking) And, let's say that they used their "capital" (great wealth) to buy the political influence to impose this system on the population (legal tender monopoly banking)... oh, and if they were to assassinate or ruin their opponents who challenge their scheme and used that same money/media/political power to go to war and slaughter anyone that gets in the way of their avaricious scheme to grab other peoples' resources in order to feed the consumer monster they created, one shouldn't wonder that some come to question that "capitalism" (use of capital, ie money, to influence and control society, ie, politics/media/police/courts).

Sorry shyfrog, but "free market" and "capitalism" are contradictory and uses of one as an adjective to describe the other is a jangling clash of meanings - terms like "monopoly capitalism" and "finance capitalism" are meaningful, because they describe ways that capital is used to gain political power to benefit that class (capitalists).

Sadly, this movement has been infiltrated by those who have confused neophytes with the meaningless and confusing usages, esp. things like Rand's attempt to re-define once meaningful terms to suit what she wants them to mean (capitalism to mean entrepreneurship and productivity) or Bureaucrash's T-shirt "enjoy Capitalism"! (I had a long talk with them to no avail.) That type of thing is so damaging to a movement for freedom, since it projects to most that the wearer is a toady for the Rothschild/Morgan/Rockefeller capitalist/fascist empire that uses murder, political subterfuge, propaganda and war as its tools to maintain power over a serflike population (aspiring to world domination), instead of conveying that the wearer is in favor of freedom.

...Don't get me started....

[EthanAllen]

It's true that by exercizing a personal ethos of putting consuming material goods first, as a way to achieve happiness, one would end up with a vacuous life, ie, "money can't buy happiness."

This is the theme of Bill McKibbon's new book "Deep Economy"

http://www.billmckibben.com/deep-economy.html

Deep Economy

The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future

The bestselling author of The End of Nature issues an impassioned call to arms for an economy that creates community and ennobles our lives.

In this powerful and provocative manifesto, Bill McKibben offers the biggest challenge in a generation to the prevailing view of our economy. For the first time in human history, he observes, "more" is no longer synonymous with "better"—indeed, for many of us, they have become almost opposites. McKibben puts forward a new way to think about the things we buy, the food we eat, the energy we use, and the money that pays for it all. Our purchases, he says, need not be at odds with the things we truly value.

McKibben's animating idea is that we need to move beyond "growth" as the paramount economic ideal and pursue prosperity in a more local direction, with cities, suburbs, and regions producing more of their own food, generating more of their own energy, and even creating more of their own culture and entertainment. He shows this concept blossoming around the world with striking results, from the burgeoning economies of India and China to the more mature societies of Europe and New England. For those who worry about environmental threats, he offers a route out of the worst of those problems; for those who wonder if there isn't something more to life than buying, he provides the insight to think about one's life as an individual and as a member of a larger community.

McKibben offers a realistic, if challenging, scenario for a hopeful future. As he so eloquently shows, the more we nurture the essential humanity of our economy, the more we will recapture our own.

read an excerpt from the book:

http://www.billmckibben.com/deep-economy-excerpt.html

[Insurgent]

Catherine Austin Fitts talks about this in depth, too on her site http://www.solari.com