Merrimack and the Bi Lingual signs

[lildog]

I'm interested in hearing everyones take on this one.

For those of you who don't know the story (which is now on national news) here are the important details...

A bunch of punks came to Wasserman park in Merrimack.

They were causing problems and ignoring the life guard.

The were also drinking alcohol which is prohibited in the park.

The life guard after being ignored called the police.

When the police spoke with the punks and told them they couldn't drink in the park the punks replied in English that they couldn't read the sign since it was in Spanish.

As a result of that the town is now discussing whether or not to add Spanish to the sign with the park rules.

On councilor in Merrimack who is dead set against this has made it clear that it is the job of people coming here to seek to fit into society, not societies job to bend for them (not in those words) and he pointed out he can not justify forcing money from his neighbors pockets to bend society for those unwilling to try to fit in and look to follow the rules.  I think his exact ending quote was "good Americans know how to act at the beach."

[Fluff and Stuff]

They need to put a Welcome to NH sign in espanol on the Salem border just like they have French signs in the north country.

[Lasse]

1: Common sense means you don't need to read a sign to know you shouldn't litter, be excessively noisy and generally obnoxious to other people. If it's a public area and there are many other people around, it's not your personal playground.

2: Ignorance of the law does not work as a defence. No habla ingles after living in the US for x amount of years to get citizenship really doesn't cut it, in my opinion.

[J’raxis 270145]

I agree that retrofitting or replacing all the current signs with English/Spanish versions is a waste of money. However, based on his statements I have a feeling the councilor pushing this argument is probably just a typical anti-immigrant/xenophobe type, and his using this argument is just an excuse. So perhaps we can add Spanish to the signs the next time they're are up for their normal replacement/repainting schedule, so the additional cost would be minimal.

[J’raxis 270145]

2: Ignorance of the law does not work as a defence.

Please read through and memorize the entirety of the New Hampshire Revised Statutes Annotated for me. You should especially enjoy RSA 155-A which codifies as law various "uniform codes" published by private entities which you have to purchase in order to read—that is, the actual text of the law is not in the law itself. The Uniform Commercial Code is fortunately included in its entirety at RSA 382 and, at a glance, looks to be about as long as the entire remainder of the RSA.

Then you can tackle the United States Code. And then perhaps your city's ordnances. Don't forget the reams of regulations published by bodies such as the EPA, OSHA, FDA, USDA, FCC, DEA, and myriad other TLAs that have the force of law. And lastly there are two hundred odd years of Supreme, federal, state, and district court decisions, most of which essentially have the force of law through stare decisis, and which in many cases completely alter the interpretation of the law you'd arrive at through your own reading of the laws.

Then please come back and make the argument that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[lildog]

I agree that retrofitting or replacing all the current signs with English/Spanish versions is a waste of money. However, based on his statements I have a feeling the councilor pushing this argument is probably just a typical anti-immigrant/xenophobe type, and his using this argument is just an excuse. So perhaps we can add Spanish to the signs the next time they're are up for their normal replacement/repainting schedule, so the additional cost would be minimal.

How about just a picture of a beer bottle with a red X on it?  That way it covers Spanish, French, Sand Scrit, Klingon or whatever other language people claim they read in.

[J’raxis 270145]

I agree that retrofitting or replacing all the current signs with English/Spanish versions is a waste of money. However, based on his statements I have a feeling the councilor pushing this argument is probably just a typical anti-immigrant/xenophobe type, and his using this argument is just an excuse. So perhaps we can add Spanish to the signs the next time they're are up for their normal replacement/repainting schedule, so the additional cost would be minimal.

How about just a picture of a beer bottle with a red X on it?  That way it covers Spanish, French, Sand Scrit, Klingon or whatever other language people claim they read in.

Yeah, this is why a lot of signs and labels are fully symbolic nowadays, especially in multilingual Europe. You need to make it blazingly obvious (beer bottle with a red X or stroke through it certainly is), or you'll still get people claiming they don't get it. I remember reading amusing news stories about how confused people became at first when clothing manufacturers started replacing labels such as "machine wash only" and "do not use bleach" with pictographs.

[error]

I have no idea what those stupid pictographs on clothing tags mean. Write in English, please!

[Dreepa]

Is there a symbol for no stupid people.

I would buy them and resell them.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Dale could draw it.  I envision a basic human head upside down with the last little bit of 'something'* leaking out of it like the top of an hour glass. In a red circle with an X across it, of course.


*little K's for knowledge?
Little asterisks with an asterisk at the bottom and the word: Knowledge?

[lildog]

Is there a symbol for no stupid people.

Or



or



Or

[NH Native]

Viva con libertad o muere!

[NH Native]

espera un segundo!

The sign was in English, and the punks were claiming they couldn't read it because it was in Spanish? Huh? ???

[CNHT]

When the police spoke with the punks and told them they couldn't drink in the park the punks replied in English that they couldn't read the sign since it was in Spanish.

I think you meant to say because it WASN'T in Spanish.

[CNHT]

I agree that retrofitting or replacing all the current signs with English/Spanish versions is a waste of money. However, based on his statements I have a feeling the councilor pushing this argument is probably just a typical anti-immigrant/xenophobe type, and his using this argument is just an excuse. So perhaps we can add Spanish to the signs the next time they're are up for their normal replacement/repainting schedule, so the additional cost would be minimal.

  Oh brother. That's interesting. Basedon his statements about what the punks said to get away with what they were doing, I get the feeling it's just the opposite and it's the punks using the excuse for why they can't understand there is no drinking in the park. We've given these punks a pass for so long, they can actually claim not to be able to read the park rules because they are not in Spanish, while speaking in English.

It's called pulling out the race card..

I doubt the lifeguard was thinking this was his big chance to be 'xenophobic', but was merely thinking, drinking is not allowed and so I have to tell them they can't.

Why do you people always have to pull out the race card or defend others who do? Does it mean if I'm a minority I can get away with being obnoxious or rude or harmful to others and you'll give me a pass? OK so I'm a Latino so should I have to follow the same rules you follow in a public place?