Secede

[John Edward Mercier]

Treason is very specifically defined in the US.
But one needs to remember that the US Constitution is a contract between the States (not the residents of the States... the non-enitities themselves).

[memenode]

I see.

Well.. that does kind of put the whole business of seceding states in a rather weird place from a voluntaryist perspective. From our perspective it is all just BS in the end, an illusion. The contracts are meaningless if they aren't between actual people.

I guess, Ian summed up the whole issue best. Just secede yourself.

Cheers

[Luke S]

Luke, if your last post was honest (and it sounds like it was), then that's a huge step! Admitting you were wrong is very hard to do, especially in public. Changing your mind about something is possibly harder, especially on something you believe in passionately. Congratulations on letting reason control your ideas instead of the other way around.

I'll make one minor correction: you said "I always thought that the USA's goal was freedom for all, but from what I've seen, it looks like that's all changed since I was little." While things have definitely changed since we were kids, I suggest that the goal of the government of the US has not been freedom for well over 200 years (which is different that what were taught by government schools).

Anyway, I hope you continue to let reason and logic guide your ideas.

* gu3st applauds Luke

I bet a lot of us once thought it was treason to disobey and live free even when it is against the rules and prevalent mentality, including me...

But I think the truth is that you can only commit treason against yourself and those who yourself voluntarily contracted with, not against someone who merely claims to have a contract with you even though they never saw or asked you anything..

It was the microchips, folks, it was the microchips that changed my mind. I ain't gonna lie. Once you guys mentioned secession, I had gotten about halfway through giving my usual "secession is treason" schpiel that I had given ever since I learned it in school. But then I remembered about the microchips. Once the British government started putting microchips in people, it ceased to be a legitimate government and became an illegitimate government. Once the Oklahoma government got halfway toward putting microchips in people, it got halfway toward going from being a legitimate government to becoming an illegitimate government. And I ain't gonna wait around for 2 or 3 years when it goes all the way to being an illegitimate government, perhaps along with the rest of the states as well.

Whether they be murderers, traitors, sex offenders, air pirates, or whatever their crimes are does not matter. Government power to force microchips into people is a perversion of the ends of government of the worst kind. It is arbitrary power that is designed to benefit one man, family, or class of men. And thus the doctrine of nonresistance against governments that put microchips in people is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.

So when those microchips come, all you NHfree people have gotta be on full power to stop them, y'hear?

[Mike Barskey]

My opinion differs from your about the possibility of "legitimate" (or moral, or free) government, but what I think is important is that you logically looked at facts that countered your opinions, and so you changed your opinions. That's great. Maybe someday you'll learn more facts that change your opinions even further, maybe not.

[memenode]

I'm with Mike.

And the only microchip I'll be putting in myself is the one that gives me superpowers like instant healing, snapping out force fields around me so I could not be hurt by government goons, and throwing lightning bolts at them to incapacitate their force. 
  Yessir. And it works without umbrellas too. 

Weehaa!

Seriously though, if your mind is free of fear, they can't do a thing to you, because what you really are is a sum of your ideas and beliefs.

"Ideas are bullet proof."

"Live free or die."